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May 24, 2007

Why Muslims And Mexicans Won't Assimilate And Why Their Immigration Is Different From Past Generations Of Immigrants

Topics: Immigration and Border Issues

Unlike America's immigrants in the past, far too many of todays' Mexican and Muslim immigrants are not assimilating into American culture, a fact that immigration proponents like Lindsey Graham, who recently read a 96-year-old quote into the Senate record to demonstrate that fear of foreigners is not new for Americans, fail to comprehend.

As Selwyn Duke points out in his piece at Renew America, today's immigrants and native-born Americans are far different than were in the past; among other reasons, the literal invasion by Mexicans and foreign-born Muslims is distinguished from previous immigrant waves by a feeling of entitlement that was not present in the immigrants referred to in Graham's quote that referred to the immigrants of 1911. Far too many Mexicans "exhibit ethnic patriotism and believe California and the Southwest rightly belongs to them" and they have no compunction about imposing their culture and language on the country. Foreign-born Muslims, and even some U.S.- born, "manifest religious chauvinism, and far too many pious Moslems believe they have been enjoined to impose their faith on others by any means necessary."

Yet Senators Edward Kennedy, Sen. Jon Kyl, Lindsey Graham, Mel Martinez, Arlen Specter, John McCain, and their ilk remain oblivious to the differences and the fact that because of it, Mexican and Muslim immigration is bringing about an erasing of the culture that made America the great nation that she is today:

... With Moslems and Mexicans on the march from Maine to Monterey, this should be obvious. Yet, the gravity of this situation still eludes many, sedated as they are with bread and circuses.

... Assimilation is not a process magically initiated upon setting foot on American terra firma. Rather, it only occurs when one or both of two conditions are met: The foreign elements must have a desire to assimilate or the host nation must place pressure on them to do so. Unfortunately, neither is the case today because both immigrants and native-born Americans are far different than they once were.

... The M&M invasion (Moslems and Mexicans) is distinguished from previous immigrant waves by a feeling of entitlement. A Zogby poll found that 58 percent of Mexicans believe California and the Southwest rightly belong to them. Although this belief is bred by a tendentious view of history, it doesn't change the end result. It has spawned groups such as Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan (MEChA), which advocates conquering the Southwest in the name of Mexico. More significantly, it causes many average Mexicans to have no compunction about imposing their culture and language on the country that has so generously given them succor.

... Where Mexicans exhibit ethnic patriotism, Moslems manifest religious chauvinism. Far too many pious Moslems believe they have been enjoined to impose their faith on others by any means necessary; this is why they will unabashedly demand concessions, such as their own dormitories at colleges and an Arabic public school in New York City. It's also why they have fought for the right to use sharia law to settle civil disputes in Canada.

... This lies in stark contrast to the behavior of yesterday's immigrants. Like anyone else, they certainly felt comfortable in the bosom of their own subculture; yet, they knew they were in another's land and never viewed accommodation by their host nation as a birthright, and any ethnic patriotism harbored was often trumped by the dream of becoming American. Unfortunately, today's immigrants' dream is often our nightmare, one from which we could arise if only, if only, ...

... freedom of association has been trumped by lawless judges, citizens have lost control over their businesses, rental properties and, in many cases, organizations. Privately owned and financed entities can no longer determine who receives paychecks, who will be served and who will be rented to, thus removing the social pressure to conform that the common man would naturally apply via the exercise of his values in his castle. Likewise, local school boards have been robbed of the right to set dress codes and behavior standards reflecting the surrounding community. What this means is now you can't refuse to hire a cross-dressing Colombian from Cartagena on the basis that he is a cross-dressing Colombian from Cartagena. Ah, it sounds almost Jeffersonian . . . almost. We've now traded liberty for perversity.

... America is being erased. The stabilizing majority that forged her unique culture is being eroded through the importation of culturally imperialistic forces by treasonous politicians.

Continue reading here .... , and you just might agree with Duke's proposal calling for a ten-year moratorium on immigration.

Related: The Washington Times - The bipartisan immigration bill being pushed by the White House and Sen. Jon Kyl, Arizona Republican, is fracturing rather than "saving" the Republican Party nationally, according to angry party leaders and new poll findings.

Posted by Richard at May 24, 2007 7:00 AM

In a recent survey conducted by the Pew Research Center, a survey conducted in English, Arabic, Farsi, and Urdu, the following information was obtained:

4 out of 10 Muslims considered a non-Muslim their best fried.

Only 15% of Muslims under age 30 identified themselves as "Muslim" first over American, only 5% of the total Muslim population in America held similar results.

Most Muslims are optimistic about opportunities in this country.

Though among African American Muslims, many had grievances concerning discrimination and lack of economic opportunities. However, such concerns are not isolated to Muslim African Americans alone, these sentiments are shared be a significant number of African Americans.

This survey demonstrates that the sample is assimilating into the mainstream.

Many Muslims in America have college degrees from prestigious public and private universities, including even Catholic Jesuit schools.

Many Muslims from my experience send their children to parochial schools, many which are runned by various Roman Catholic entities.

I know of Muslims both in the United States and Canada who marry non-Muslims, this includes non-Muslim men married to practicing Muslim women.

There are Muslim servicemembers in the armed forces, anywhere from 3,000-10,000 who identify as Muslim in their service record. However, there could be more since some Muslims convert to Islam when deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq, I know of some of these new Muslims.

As for Mexicans, Mexican Americans are assimilating. By the third generation, half of all men of Mexican origin marry a non-Mexican woman, usually a white woman.

Mexicans gradually lose a command of the Spanish language, and like previous waves of immigrants, tend to become monolinguists.

Mexicans in the armed forces are over-represented in comparison to their total share of the US population.

Bill Richardson is running for the Democrat nomination bid, Alberto Gonzalez is the Attorney General in the current administration, etc.

Latinos are assimilating.

True, some Latinos are resistant to change and so are some Muslims, but these peoples are not a threat to America.

Posted by: GustavoMustafa at May 24, 2007 2:45 PM


Non-assimilators are not a threat to America?

Quite a leap of logic based upon what amounts to commentary without references.

Ruined by "Roman Catholic entities"? My daughter just graduated from a Catholic High school and was in the 98th percentile on SATs, and 99.4% of her class was accepted into college, 61% got college of their first choice.

Too many comments based upon your own say so, and so much of it conflicts with facts.

As far as Muslims are concerned, the issue here is not Muslims born in America, and certainly not all Muslims. The issue is a large number of Muslim immigrants who are not assimilating and of course home grown jihadists attending radical mosques.

Clearly, GustavoMustafa has an agenda ....

Posted by: Abdul at May 24, 2007 4:32 PM


If you want to know about the recent survey, you can look it up online from the Pew Research Center and CAIR.

Now look, I'm Muslim of Afghan/Iranian and Mexican ancestry.

I never said Muslims were ruined by attending Catholic schools.

I attended a First Baptist elementary school and a non-denominational pre-school back in the 1980's.

I have no agenda. I attend the Abu Bakr mosque in San Diego (Islamic Center of San Diego).

My family came from Kabul and Teheran, they are not observant Muslims even though they avoid pork and taboos of having dogs in the home. None of the women in my immediate family don on the hijab.

I served in the United States Navy and was honorably discharged.

I primarily use English both in the Mexican barrio and in the Muslim masjid scene.

Only a handful of Muslims seem resistant to assimilation. Remember, I come from a fairly well-to-do middle class Farsi speaking family, Iranians in America regardless of religious affiliation are quite successful.

Look at any directory of doctors and healthcare providers in Southern California, my home, and you will find a long and impressive list of professionals bearing a Muslim name.

Furthermore, I'm gay and it seems on this site homosexuality is equated with perversity.

In Iran and other Muslim cultures, homosexuality has always been around, but there was no modern "identity and alternative lifestyle" associated with it. Gay pride parades are confined to Muslim-majority Turkey and Israel in the Middle East.

I have no agenda but I'm certainly liberal in my leanings.

Before stating the shahada (profession of faith), I was a former Southern Baptist and Theravada Buddhist. From fundamentalist Christianity to a moderate Muslim, I know there are some Muslims who have anti-feminist attitudes and display no loyalty to this country, but I'm not one of them.

I eat pork and drink sometimes. I don't adhere to dietary Muslim taboos, however, I attend the Friday Jumaahs when my work and school schedule permit me.

Posted by: GustavoMustafa at May 24, 2007 5:02 PM


Are you Muslim or a former Muslim? An Arab Christian or Arab Jew?

The mosques in San Diego that I have attended, which is a fair number of them, are largely apolitical and avoid and shun "home country" politics for good reason.

Furthermore, there is a small number of military Muslims in San Diego, not surprising when you consider the Marine Corps and Navy bases in the city. 1/5 of the city's population is employed with the Department of Defense.

Many of these Muslims are African American, again not surprising, since many minorities and people of a more modest economic background are more likely to enlist than those more fortunate in terms of material wealth.

In San Diego, there is the Tablighi Jamaat movement, however, the men here, and it is not open to women, consist of mostly recent converts to Islam who grow their beards and generally wear white thobes with leather khuffs. They shun materialism for an austere life of poverty, however, I would not consider them radicals since they are largely ignorant of political discourse, both Western and Islamist.

San Diego is also home to a Sufi movement, aligned with Hamza Yusuf Hanson's teachings, based in the San Francisco Bay Area, called Zaytuna Institute. These men also live a "traditional" Muslim lifestyle, but they too are not radicals, many of them being recent former Catholic Filipino converts. They follow Maliki fiqh teachings while the Tablighis follow Hanafi South Asian fiqh teachings.

I did meet one Hanboli (Wahabbi) African American convert, but I have no contacts with the Salafi community.

Some of their views contradict my Western upbringing. I for one do not agree with the Muslim tendency to engage in gender apartheid in the masjid, I have prayed behind women in commonal prayer, and I don't adhere to some Hadith teachings which I seem at odds with modernity.

I see the Qur'an as a moral compass and guide, but the violent verses in the Qur'an are in my opinion not applicable today since they refer to the Community of Revelation (the 7th century).

Just as it would be irresponsible for Christians to justify political violence via violent passages in the Bible, the same holds for Muslims.

I do not claim to know the entire Muslim community. The community that I do know is not a threat to America. And the same can be said of Muslim community in Los Angeles.

However, politically I disagree with some Muslim college campus activists on issues of Palestine, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

I do consider Israel a legitimate nation with the right to exist, but that does not negate the Palestinian call for independence and a nation co-existing with Israel in Gaza and the West Bank. But under Hamas leadership, that is not a possibility.

Posted by: GustavoMustafa at May 24, 2007 5:18 PM

GustavoMustafa, I'm a former Muslim, now Roman Catholic, and continue to have many Muslim friends, most of whom are practicing but not especially pious. I don't consider myself as an especially pious Catholic, either. But I do practice my faith, and have never felt the need or compulsion to proselytize my faith to anyone else.

After hearing more from you, I understand much more about where you're coming from and find that your views may differ in some ways from my own and others that post here at Hyscience, but well within a range of healthy and productive dialogue. For example, I do disagree with you about "only a handful of Muslims" being resistant to assimilation. You and I both no that's not the case - and if you believe CAIR represents moderate Muslims, I definitely beg to differ. Truly moderate Muslims know better. I have too many friends that have left their mosques recently because Friday prayers have turned into CAIR indoctrinations - of the anti-assimilation variety. The AFID ( is definately moderate, and there are others, but not CAIR. Far too agenda driven of the wrong kind of agenda - Islamism, not Islam.

Hyscience and Freedom's Zone hosts moderate Muslim bloggers all over the world, annonymously and for free, to protect them from discovery by the prying eyes of their governments and jihadists. This site is in no way against moderate Muslims who practice their faith and are against the tenets, supporters, and followers of radical Islam. If you've read us often, you will know that for sure.

As for gay people being a perversion, only in the sense of pushing a gay agenda. We have gay friends, and except for their sexual orientation, find them for the most part, like us. They're even conservative, like most of us posters.

In our minds the "perversion" has to do with pushing a homosexual agenda, not the quiet practice thereof. Much like a heterosexual relationship should also "show a little class" and be the business of the couple, and none other. There's also the issue of naturalness, in our minds, that children are born of a relationship of a man and a woman, and when heterosexual relationships stop, so does mankind. As for criticizing Rosie as being a lesbo, in our minds she invites it, and actually makes a big deal about it herself - hence she's fair game.

Otherwise, no biggy on the gay part. Also, no biggy on the Muslim part. You are obviously not of the cohort of Mexicans and Muslims that the post is addressing. There are always exceptions, and unbridled immigration from people with no intention of assimilating affects you as much as the rest of us Americans.

By the way, two Hyscience posters are former Marines, another is in Iraq now for the 5th time, two are practicing Muslims. All have advanced degrees.

And I promise not to hold it against you for having served in the navy - a branch of the Marine Corp!!!

Posted by: Abdul at May 24, 2007 11:13 PM


The only thing that I disagree concerning the Friday khutbas have been what I consider Hadith non-sense.

This may seem shocking and heretical, I don't adhere to the Sunnah (collection of writings believed to contain the words of Muhammad) outside the Qur'an.

There is a growing number of Qur'an-only Muslims, we are the Muslim version of the Protestant Reformation in some ways.

Many of the violent hadith quoted by Islamists come from questionable hadith sources. I say do away with them, Islam in my opinion was never meant to be a means to justify various forms of enslavement and what have you.

I have met Muslims who wholeheartedly agree with slavery, they seem to forget that Muhammad adopted a son named Zayd, who was a former slave. If Muslims are to emulate the Prophet, then prohibition should be the preferred norm over human enslavement. Christians in the nineteenth century questioned the morality of slavery and eventually tackled the issue of racial supremacy, since some used the Bible to justify white supremacy.

Now Muslims must tackle similar issues.

I have my issues concerning CAIR, since the organization does seem a tad bit paranoid.

I have issues with Rosie's "conspiracy" theories concerning 9/11.

As someone who is Afghan, I supported Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan but opposed the toppling of the Baath regime, I felt it would divert our attention from Afghanistan for the "crown jewel" of Iraq.

I have family who are both Christian of various denominations and Muslim also of various sects. I guess I like the ritual of prayer or salaat/namaz as we call it in Farsi.

However, tribalism does seem to be an issue for Muslims and this fetish concerning the outward appearance of women and what is deemed "permissable" for social public interaction regarding women.

By tribalism, Muslims tend to care only about other Muslims. Rarely do Muslims seem concerned with the plight of non-Muslims. When the VTech massacre happened, MSA National highlighted the death of a Muslim Egyptian student and the death of an ethnic Lebanese American.

I have certainly come across rather intolerant websites based in the United States like the Islamic Thinkers Society, which operates out of Queens, NY. However, I have not personally engaged with such Muslims, my contacts with the Muslim community are quite limited right now with my busy work and school schedule and other affairs of the Dunya (world).

So you converted to Catholism, that's cool. I was always fascinated with the Marian cult, especially Mexican devotion to Our Lady of Guadalupe.

Unlike some Muslims who feel that the only "religion is Islam" based on a literal reading of the Third Surah of the Qur'an, I feel all religions possess Truth but vary depending upon their culture of origin and histories.

Islam is currently inflicted with a sense of triumphalism which does not serve it well. People will judge Islam not by ideas but by actions, and sadly we have some rather vocal and theatrical zealots.

Posted by: GustavoMustafa at May 25, 2007 12:32 AM

Eventually, Muslims of reason and tolerance will once again be more dominant than the extremists, but right now, the extremists have the upper hand in representing Islam. True moderates need to be more vocal.

I know of two other Muslims that have also converted to Catholicism, but are virtually terrified of their past faith becoming known to some other Muslims in our community. Moderate Muslims, in general, including my close friends, are afraid to be very vocal about their pro-Democracy views.

In general, regarding religion, I encourage others to follow the faith of their traditional family, and not "shop around" for something better. My own conversion was a spiritual and ideological matter, not an anti-Islam matter. To be anti-any faith, is to be blind to the hearts of others. However, I do not consider Islamism, Islam, anymore than I consider the klu Klux Klan and the Westboro Baptist Church members - Christian.

Posted by: Abdul at May 25, 2007 1:06 AM

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