"I can't help but wonder how so many young men simply let this happen without at least trying to stop the carnage"

How do you know that, you fucking idiot? Shut your mouth.

This isn't a war zone. These kids weren't expecting anything like this. As a result, I have to guess it took most of them a good 5-10 seconds to realize what was going on when a kid walked in their room and started shooting. By the time those few seconds had past, most of the potential heroes probably had bullets in their heads. Any that didn't, if they made a run at the guy, they probably got a bullet soon after.

To judge these kids without knowing what happened, without having been in the situation yourself, is beyond ridiculous. Burn in hell, you miserable fuck.

Your language telegraphs your competence, David. Perhaps you might consider re-reading the qualifiers in the post. And although your comment regarding the timing involved are indeed relevant, courage in the face of fire is by necessity - instantaneous. Had you spent time in combat you'd know this to be the case. Take for example 76 year-old Professor Liviu Librescu, who threw himself in front of the shooter when the man attempted to enter his classroom. The Professor, much older than the students, had no more time to react than the students who were diving out the window to get away.

By the way, instead of editing your comments for language, we've decided to leave them up, as is. The language tells much about the person, his values, and the importance one should place on his opinions.

You miss the point entirely. Criticizing students for not having "courage in the face of fire" when you yourself did not go through this experience nor do you know the specifics of what these students endured is beyond cruel. I do not view my choice of strong language as being nearly adequate in describing my feelings toward your callousness, and I'm sure most rational people would agree.

In addition, I don't know your personal history and don't really care whether or not you have lived through combat, but if you have, good for you. I'm assuming you were trained before you had those experiences. It would be my guess that these students were not. Many of these students may have had courage but were not properly trained to handle the situation without losing their lives.

And let me close by saying, for good measure, fuck off.

You point was taken, oh one who was obviously raised in a gutter. It is you who fails to comprehend the point. I am not being callous, just stating an opinion based on a hell of a lot of experience with violence and reaction to it by young men thrown into it. Again, moron: "Take for example 76 year-old Professor Liviu Librescu, who threw himself in front of the shooter when the man attempted to enter his classroom. The Professor, much older than the students, had no more time to react than the students who were diving out the window to get away." The 76 year old holocaust survivor was not a combat trained veteran.

As for me since you brought it up, I'm a Force Recon Marine who spent two years in Vietnam, then time in Rhodesia with the Selous Scouts. You might say that I've had a wee bit of experience and have a bit of knowledge about which I speak.

Again, the few points you make that are valid are well taken, and yes, different people respond differently to traumatic events. But clearly, the facts speak for themselves in that a 76 year old professor, and yes, a couple of other individuals who did give it a fair shot, were but a very small number of individuals willing to give it their all. What was needed was a few Todd Beamer's, willing to act on a "let's roll" attitude.

The students at VT did go through instant hell, but you can bet your ass that many are now saying to themselves, "If only we would have .... " We're all made up a little different, but courage lies within all of us. Certainly confusion and shock played a part in most of the student's not fighting back. But a larger percentage should have done differently, a population of which you are surely not a member.

As for my response to your "F-Off," no need to say it, you can surely guess how much respect I have for foul-mouthed cowards with no ability or willingness to discuss or attempt to understand the importance of courage and discuss matters intelligently. I've considered your points, weighed them reasonably, and to some degree, agreed. In return, what's come back is profane, naive, dribble.

To all:

The students in the Prof. Librescu's class should have followed his lead and rushed the gunman. If they trusted him, then they should have assisted him.

Prof. Librescu ... a holocaust survivor .. knew too well the results of complacency in face of evil. Evil must be confronted.

Since the students just froze and chose to save themselves while allowing their professor to be murdered, one has to ask: what have they learned from his classes and at Virginia Tech?

So much for higher education!

With Aloha,

Good perspective, Harry. I always appreciate a perspective from a fellow warrior from a time when men were men (and sheep lived in fear)!!!!!

Semper Fi

To All:

In their moment of truth for which higher education prepares them, the VT students:

A. Hid behind their desk as a lone gunman executed their classmates;

B. Jumped from a second story window, leaving their classmates to be executed by a lone gunman, or

C. Stood quietly in line awaiting their turn to be executed.

During the holocaust, the victims experienced the very same scenarios. Isn't surprising that after so much has been written and filmed about the ordeals of the holocaust victims and survivors, we find their students repeating their experience? We have to question the value of the holocaust education to date, now don't we?

Smokin' Cho's rampage was the moment of truth for VT ... and I suppose all American institutions of higher education. Are we to conclude that our post-holocaust children are content to go quietly to their deaths whenever evil visits?

What we witnessed at VT is the "Me" generation acting out the Liberal-Democratic ideals of America: save me, and the abandon the rest.

Even the fully-armed & bulletproof-vested police response hid behind trees while students were being executed. One has to ask why we pay for this form of protection.

Other than Prof. Librescu, there were no heroes at VT. The others cowered away, as they have been indoctrinated. We witnesses America's moment of truth!

Now, those who ran away can say that they are alive ... well, for a while .. where they will get the opportunity to spread their cowardice to all avenues of life. Most of the survivors, I suspect, will become politicians ... the protesters of the 60s did well for themselves. I could discern their actions in the VT response to Smokin' Cho's rampage.

The moment of courage has passed. However, I still find humor in the exaggerated boasts of the survivors.

With Aloha,

My take is their so damned glad to be alive. But surely you can't help but notice that all the hero crap is coming from the panzy-ass liberal secular MSM who haven't a clue about courage in the face of fire(the one exception - they actually do understand about the professor).

In is the nature of the human being and every other living creature to preserve ones life. The reason we hail people who sacrifice their own lives for others is because such creatures are extraordinary.

It is unfair, insensitive and inhuman for someone who was not even there nor was never in a similar situation to criticize those who were there on how they reacted to the situation. Are you saying that those who survived and even those who died are partly to blame for the number of deaths?

In is the nature of the human being and every other living creature to preserve ones life. The reason we hail people who sacrifice their own lives for others is because such creatures are extraordinary.

It is unfair, insensitive and inhuman for someone who was not even there nor was never in a similar situation to criticize those who were there on how they reacted to the situation. Are you saying that those who survived and even those who died are partly to blame for the number of deaths?

Read the post again, Shucks. That's not what's being said here. There's a very big difference between being responsible for someone else's sick act and a tragedy occurring that might have not been as terrible as it was had one or more victims responded differently.

As for being in a similar situation, many of us who are asking the tough questions about why more students didn't resist have indeed been in similar and much worse situations. Firefights in combat are instantaneous chaos, invoke instant controlled fear, and a reaction, the first of which is to fight back and survive. We speak from experience.

And then there's the case of a 76 year old man that gave his life to save the lives of his students as they dove out the window to escape. No one helped him? Aren't you the least bit curious as to why? The difference is called courage.

Dear Shucks:

To answer your question directly: yes, the students who ran or hid from the lone gunman were responsible for the extent of the massacre. Pure and simple, they were cowards.

The armed-police who hid behind trees while the students were being executed were likewise cowards. They were paid to protect the students and staff at Virginia Tech. They waited until the gunman chose to end the carnage himself, before they decided to confront him.

From this date forward, the students who ran & hid, as well as the tree-hinding policemen, will know that they failed the students as well as themselves. The students who ran & hid will forever be haunted by the fact that when the moment of truth arrived, they declined to act.

As for your natural reaction comment, we distinguish ourselves from animals with our courage ... apparently, higher education may be regressing our distinction. At Virginia Tech, those who ran & hid were pristinely natural.

Ask the holocaust survivors about the value of courage. They have filled tomes with the effects of natural reactions.

Yes, Shucks, the students who ran & hid compounded the massacre. I pray you appreciate what "fill the lines" means ... it is not a natural reaction.

With Aloha,

Above all I think the police are the most to blame, those cowards and their ridiculous lack of action due to "following the book" cost many lives.

Why the hell wait outside when you know people are dying? THEY are the ones that are suppose to RISK their lives. They should have gone in and NOT waited to assess the situation. This wasn't a bank robbery, or a terrorist hostage situation. This is killings in a school which means its a columbine, which means its only a student or 2 non-combat trained in there killing kids and then most likely going to kill himself.

Stupid cops.

Oh and I'll say this, if I was a student at that school, I would have tried to get as many people as I could to grab chairs held in front of them and rush the guy all at once.

Hell even a backpack filled with books or laptops could stop a 9mm or at least deflect/deform it.