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January 9, 2006

HarryTho 1/9 Natalee Holloway Commentary

Topics: Natalee Holloway

This evening, I would like to recap many of the news items that came in over the weekend.

First, we have word via CBS 2 Palm Springs that Beth Twitty claims that the Aruban authorities have decided to close the case.

Posters have made reference to a TV appearance in which Beth's lawyer, Helen Lejuez, mentioned that the Aruban authorities might close the case. Coming from Beth in this manner seems to signify that the Twitty-Holloway camp is prepared to toss in the towel.

On the issue of closing the case, one of our posters provided a useful link to Dutch judicial procedures:

According to the poster, case remains open generally for 12 years, after which it will be closed permanently. Law in the Kingdom of the Netherlands has recently change to allow some kinds of murder to remain unlimited in duration, as in the United States.

The 2-year time limit often spoke of in the media has to deal with the time limit with which persons can be suspects in case. Once arrested on suspicion, the authorities have two years with which to bring charges against the suspects; after which time, they are freed from any restrictions. In this case, the suspects can be released and free of restriction anytime within two years; however, the case remains open for the next 12 years.

When the leads are exhausted, then the case becomes cold and few, if any detectives, will work on it, regardless of the time that has expired. Hence, if the leads are exhausted in January 2006, then case becomes cold. Detectives are reassigned to other cases, yet the case remains open for the remainder of the 12 year time limit or longer.

In the case of Natalee Holloway's disappearance, we have yet to determine if a crime has been committed. Accordingly, it is conceivable that the case will be closed for the simple matter that there never was a case in the beginning. In which case, there are exists no statute of limitations for a non-case. The case could be closed anytime. This will probably become the situation, if no leads are discovered to suggest that a crime has been committed.

Second, the Amigoe Newspaper reports that experts in underwater crime scenes from the University of Florida in Panama City will commence an underwater search for Natalee Holloway at the request of the Prime Minister of Aruba. If this is factual and not an investigation into a newly discovered sea mountain near Bonaire, then the investigation in Natalee Holloway's disappearance may be taking a new turn. In one of our past editorials, a few months ago, Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch requested this team, or one like it, form the University of Florida because of some advanced sonar that they possess. An advanced sonar system will accompany this team to Aruba.

Third, the issue of Dutch troops being sent to the Afghan theater has resurfaced:

AMSTERDAM -- A decision not to send more troops in Afghanistan would be damaging for Dutch interests in the US, former American diplomat Paul Bremer III warned on Monday.
Dutch politicians have been putting off a final decision for weeks on whether to send 1,200 troops to southern Afghanistan to assist in the US-led campaign against the Taliban.

The coalition government, with the possible exception of junior partner D66, supports the mission but is reluctant to proceed without the backing of parliament. Many MPs in the 150-seat chamber are worried the the southern province of Uruzgan is too dangerous.

In an interview with Dutch newspaper 'De Volkskrant', Bremer said

the Netherlands must not expect that a refusal to send the troops will not have consequences.

Acknowledging Dutch politicians must weigh all the considerations, he said question marks would be raised on the US side about Nato if the mission doesn't go ahead. "What is Nato all about if our allies are not prepared to stand should-to-shoulder with us?"

Bremer said Europe was correct to want more international cooperation "but when the possibility emerges, people are side-stepping it," he said.

Consequences would be unavoidable if the Dutch does not send the troops. "Time and time again decisions must be taken by the US government, by Congress, that influence Dutch economic interests. It is not difficult to imagine decisions could be taken that would not be in the interests of the Netherlands," Bremer said.

He said some elements in Europe do not understand how dangerous Muslim extremism is. "Many Europeans don't understand 11 September was an earthquake for almost all Americans," Bremer said.

Clearly, the Alabama, Arkansas and Georgia boycott is being felt and reacted to in the Dutch Parliament. Also, I suppose, that it goes without saying that the Aruba fiasco could have been a harbinger, from the beginning, in anticipation of resistance in the Dutch Parliament by the D66 Group.

On cable, Rita was enamored with Ferris Hassan's day off in Lebanon & Iraq with the Hizbullah, then she followed up with more intrigue about the Cruise Ship murder.

Greta dove into the multiple murders scenes developing in Virginia.

With Aloah,

Posted for HarryTho

Posted by Richard at January 9, 2006 10:33 PM

posted this evening on RWV by Scubajap (substantiates harry's information)
and as for info, what Beth said on the interview, and I saw the video and replayed it several times was that "her lawyer told her that they MAY be closing the case"
Well that is NOT so, a dive team from FSU with special sonar equipment, the most advanced possible, is coming to the island to search, by the invitation of the Prime Minister, and the investigation continues.
And that is all from me for awhile.
Posted by: Scubajap | Monday, January 09, 2006 at 11:47 PM

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at January 10, 2006 12:29 AM

Hi Harry,
Would like to share something with you and your commenters. I was reading at RWV and this morning at around 11 am a poster by the name of Pearl in the usa posted "From today's
Search for Natalee Holloway resumed" and the accompanying article.
then another poster Pathenry came on and told Pearl the following "

Pearl: The article you posted. That was coming up as the lead story, a couple days ago, when you google "natalee holloway news". It is posted on the Florida State U. website. It is from July 28, 2005 (something like that) is not current. I don't know why that story got picked up again."
Posted by: pathenry | Monday, January 09, 2006 at 11:03 AM
Then this evening Scubajap came on and indicated as I posted above.
Harry, wasn't this all a very peculiar exchange. What do you guys make of this?

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at January 10, 2006 12:51 AM

Dear Little Bo Peep:

Many months ago, the University of Florida (UF)underwater search team was requested by Tim Miller and possibly some Aruban authority got involved. For whatever reason, the UF team never made it to Aruba. It may have had to do with who would pay their expenses. To the best of my knowledge, the Prime Minister of Aruba was not involved in any request to the UF team, back then.

The new Amigoe article came out recently and mentions the Aruba Prime Minister, as requesting the UF dive team with advanced sonar. The Amigoe article appears to be a new request.

I suspect the Prime Minister has been advised to keep the case alive. Also, keep in mind that UF dive team may have a dual purpose with the recent discovery of a sea mountain off Bonaire.

With Aloha,


Posted by: harry at January 10, 2006 2:50 AM

The Birmingham News printed this on Janunary 7:

"In addition, Florida State University's Underwater Crime Scene Investigation Program has asked Aruban officials if members can return to the island. Forensic divers from that program have been to Aruba twice and on the last visit were searching the waters around the island with sonar. Director Tom Kelley said the team needs stronger sonar equipment to search two miles offshore, where depths plummet to nearly 600 feet.

"We consider the business down there unfinished, and we'd like to go back to finish it up," he said. "We'd love to bring some kind of closure to this. She's an American citizen, she's our neighbor, and we want to make sure that if she was a victim of a crime, we do everything we can to solve it."

Beth Twitty, Holloway's mother, applauded the two search teams' efforts to return but said she didn't plan to revisit the island at this time unless absolutely necessary. She said the teams were frustrated by having to cut their searches short.

"They thought they could at least rule out some possibilities," she said by phone from Palm Springs, Calif., where she spoke to a conference of the National Sheriffs' Association."

Sorry for any confusion. I still don't understand how the FSU website article from July 8 appeared as the top google NH news story on Jan. 5....but it appears to be a "fresh" search.

Posted by: pathenry at January 10, 2006 3:34 AM

I would like to also point out that in the Birmingham News phone interview, with Beth, from Palm Springs, she states she is happy that both TES and FSU will be going back to Aruba to search.
In Palm Springs, Beth tells CBS2 News that she had just learned from her attorney, that Aruba was closing the case.

You can draw your own conclusions.

Posted by: pathenry at January 10, 2006 3:51 AM

The Birmingham News printed this on Janunary 7:

"Beth Twitty, Holloway's mother, applauded the two search teams' efforts to return but said she didn't plan to revisit the island at this time unless absolutely necessary"

Posted by: pathenry at January 10, 2006 03:51 AM

Aruba HAS stated they want her back in Aruba along with questioning the MB Kids and chaperones. SO to me, if it is important that she FIND her daughter, she needs to return to Aruba and answer questions, along with the MB Kids and Chaperones. BUT again let me stress, ONLY if it is IMPORTANT TO BETH, TO FIND HER DAUGHTER, she needs to return to Aruba, along with Juggy too.

Let's not worry if it is closed or not BUT to put the pressure back on BT, MB Kids and Chaperones. If they DO NOT cooperate or assist in finding their daughter/friend as Aruba has ASKED FOR MONTHS now, than there is NO CASE to CLOSE. Let the Lawsuits begin!!!

Posted by: Lisa11011 at January 10, 2006 6:28 AM

It clearly looks like that The Netherlands and Aruba is under fire by the US as if we are the one that hits the Twin Tower! Wawww amazing friends do we have in the US. Holland, Netherlands or The Dutch Kingdom was and will always be a vital part in the economy of the US. Some people believe that the multipower issue can be a tool to threaten whoever they want and anytime they want. It was the US that choose to go to Afghanistan to look for Bin Laden. Now that Bush realised that his operations back there is not giving the results as he promised to the US citizens, some american diplomat is coming up with this particular issue. Next time US will threaten any other allied if they don's send troops to Iraq since the US troops are being killed on daily basis. I believe that the US is converting their own friends into enemies for no particular reasons at all.

Posted by: Albert at January 10, 2006 8:38 AM

MB teens are waiting and have been for months to be requestioned. No indication given to them, their parents, chaperones that this will ever happen. Didn't Aruban officials that visited Washington DC in Dec tell Bachus requestioning of the MB teens would take place soon? That was almost a month ago...any word on what the hold up is? Also, Tim Miller has made a statement that he does not and never has supported the boycott of Aruba.

Posted by: jewels at January 10, 2006 10:06 AM

What happened with Natalee's letter?

I do not understand US, They want the troops. In the other hand they said they are calling for a boycott!!
If US is that good, Is it possible they can get the good, strong people from Alabama, Georgia, as well as some of the Beth groopies..

Posted by: antoinette at January 10, 2006 11:27 AM

Also, Tim Miller has made a statement that he does not and never has supported the boycott of Aruba.

This is exactly what we expected. Whenever they want to get back to Aruba they end up saying that they didn't say anything. Beth did the same thing when she visited Aruba the last time. We don't want tim Miller back in Aruba even if he didn't say anything. Equusearch and his crew are nothing else than a bunch of unprofesionals that spend their time showing off in front of the t.v. camera's and giving stupid statements about our investigation team. Like I said before, I was called by a cameraman of a US t.v. station on a saturday morning after the arrival of the Equusearch team which was the friday night before. They stayed at the Stauffer Hotel, and I was the one that introduced Tim Miller to the Minister of Justice. Together with some local friends we manage to get help from Search and Rescue group of Aruba and also we receive assistance of a local company that provide us a divers boat. Tim Miller and his didn't even have 9 volts batteries for their underwater flashlights. They gave us a list of a lot of things that they didn't have including cash. A local bank donated a couple of ten thousands of US Dollars to the Equusearch. However Tim Miller and his crew decided to waste this money in the casino of the Holiday Inn. Local restaurant on the Palm Beach strip nearby the Highrise hotels provided daily meals and at the Wyndham Hotel they even took care of Tim Miller and his crew laundry. Tim Miller was promptly intorduced to the police chief of Aruba, and it was on request of the FBI and the Dutch experts that Equusearch didn't participate directly in the investigations. The main reason was because of their close contact with Beth and Jug. By that time Beth was giving too much confidential infromations regarding the case to CNN and Fox. Other US media had to stand stand in the line to wait when and who was going to give them the informations. On their last visit Tim Miller insulted the Police chief when he couldn't get a tugboat and a underwater censor from Valero and the FBI. Tim Miller believes he's the best, however he is not. The Prime Minister of Aruba and the Police chief are not interested in Equusearch. They are unprofesional and lousy. Remmember when they dig a turtle nest??? Wawww that was amazing. And not to talk on how they handlle their cadaverdogs. Folks I spend a day with some US t.v. camera crew and they were laughing at Tim Miller circuss. It was a nice day out in Aruba away from my office, but I was better off watching cartoon with my son. Believe me. Some guy of the Equusearch pretends to be police officers back in Texas but they don't even have the police language. What a nice crew!

I spoke with a member of the Police Force of Aruba regaridng the Vanity Fair article. And this is their reaction:
At the early stage of the investigation a lot of aruban citizen was trying to help to Twittie's for instance Mr. Charles Croes who was the one that also spoke with Joran. Charles Croes was intervieuwed by the Vanity Fair where he answer a lot of questions and also did a very interesting statement of his conversation with Joran. Guess what guys...Charles was called in by the local police and question as a witness. You know what most of his answers was??? Ï can't recall, I can't remember and the most interesing one was Ï didn't say that....So whoever that could have read that interesting intervieuw of Charles Croes just waste their time. Charles Croes was arrested last year for threathening his wife and also Charles Croes was fired from a huge Developing Company for misuse of alcohol. His first wife didn't had the most pleasant time during the divorce process and authorities firmly believe that Charles Croes is not else then a moocher! So, more then half of the story in Vanity Fair does not enjoy a credibilty. Charles Croes assisted Beth and Jug in providing cellulars at a reasonable rental price to the full crew of Beth and Jug. Charles Croes runs the Digicel cellular rentals at the airport. case closed for Charles Croes. He is awaiting trial for his last incident.

Posted by: Albert at January 10, 2006 11:49 AM

The Public Prosecution Service is not a government department like, say, the Ministry of Defence or Social Affairs: together with the courts, it forms what is known as the judiciary, the authority responsible for the administration of justice.

Here we go folks! Our system in aruba and the Netherlands is still diferent compared to the one of the US. No politician or Government representative can decide for the Public Prosecution Office. They are completly independant. I learned from different post that in the US and in Alabama the Public Prosecutors Office can be manipulated by the Governor and or the Senators or who ever that might have a political potential. Correct me Harry if I am wrong.

regards from Aruba

Posted by: Albert at January 10, 2006 12:01 PM

Beth Twitty, Holloway's mother, applauded the two search teams' efforts to return but said she didn't plan to revisit the island at this time unless absolutely necessary. She said the teams were frustrated by having to cut their searches short.

Many months ago, the University of Florida (UF)underwater search team was requested by Tim Miller and possibly some Aruban authority got involved

Director Tom Kelley said the team needs stronger sonar equipment to search two miles offshore, where depths plummet to nearly 600 feet.

For whatever reason, the UF team never made it to Aruba. It may have had to do with who would pay their expenses.

Read these very carefully and answer my following questions...
1. Who did the initial contact with the Equusearch?? Beth or the Aruban Government?

2. If the Equuseacrh is the top of the line, why did they call in the UF team?

3. Why would the UF team be frustrated if they knew upfront that there equipments are not competible for this kind of search? Why does Beth making this statement?

4. If Beth and Jug is running around the US collecting thousands of dollars, why can't they pay for the UF team to come to Aruba?

5. What guarantees does Aruba have that they are not bringing in false evidences in order to keep the story alive so Beth can keep chasing money?

6. Who is Tim Miller to decide who to appraoch or not for this search? Do you believe the story that the UF team didn't have the sonar equipment in order to work in Aruba if Tim Miller knew already that the water around Aruba is pretty deep?

Posted by: Albert at January 10, 2006 12:17 PM

Jamaica has now been classed the murder capital of the world, after 2005 saw more than 1,600 people killed; a tally of at least five people murdered a day.

Curiosity...No US citizen was killed in jamaica last year? If yes, how come they didn't receive the media coverage like Natalee did?

Posted by: carlos at January 10, 2006 12:37 PM

Albert, what do the Aruban people see as the next step in this investigation? Also, was there a Rudy Croes involved in the investigation in the beginning? Thanks

Posted by: jewels at January 10, 2006 1:40 PM

Dear Albert:

It is my regret to inform you that in America the public prosecutor and the entire judiciary system are infested with political interference. You might go so far as to say that in areas where one political party maintains a super-majority (more than two-thirds) control that the political party in control owns the public prosecutor and the entire judiciary.

I live in the state of Hawaii, and I will exchange harsh words with anyone in the state of Hawaii that disagrees with me ... very harsh words! I cannot speak for the other states, but many of our posters can.

With Aloha,


Posted by: harry at January 10, 2006 1:50 PM

Dear jewels:

Rudy Croes is the Minsiter of Justice in a Aruba.

With Aloha,


Posted by: harry at January 10, 2006 1:51 PM

Dear jewels:

The hold up in interviewing the Kingdom of Mountain Brook teens is political interference with the FBI. We dedicated an entire editorial to the FBI Office in Birmingham, AL and how they laid down in this investigation.

With Aloha,


Posted by: harry at January 10, 2006 1:55 PM

Harry: Yes, I read that editorial about the MB FBI, etc., wrote emails, but no response which is not surprising.

Has any evidence come forward that the local Agent in Charge had a relative on this Aruba trip? I've never seen anything regarding that, only speculation?

Do you think that the local office has that much power to sandbag a local investigation, such that the district office or DC wouldn't step in an tell them to get their act together and investigate?

Thanks, I do appreciate your site. Moey

Posted by: moey at January 10, 2006 2:15 PM

Also, was there a Rudy Croes involved in the investigation in the beginning? Thanks

I beliveve that your lack of knowledge is playing a role in your question. rudy Croes is Minister of Justice and can never interact and or involve himelf in any investigation. The Public Prosecutors office works in accordance with the law and that mentality of an Aruban politician to interfere with an investigation is out of place. Ihave to dissapoint you by answering you that he don't have anything to say in the investigation. The sensational aspect created by a local newspaper in Aruba has create a wrong image of the credibility of the Judicial system.

i just receieved a couple of minutes ago a press release from the Public Prosecutors office in Aruba together with the Police Force.

The Police Force togeteher with the Public Prosecuters Office is urging anyone that might know any details about this case to call Mr. dompig direct numbers a.s.a.p. The Police and the Public Prosecutors Office still has reasons to belive that a crime has been committed and that investigations are still going on....

I believe that this is in reactions of Beth and mrs Lejuez statement a couple of days when they spread the news that the case is going to be closed. And like I said yesterday, NO case will be closed. It ain't over till it's over.

Posted by: Albert at January 10, 2006 2:24 PM

Dear moey:

The answer to your question on political power to sandbag is "yes." You must understand that FBI agents, even though designed to be distinct from politics, are overwhelmed with political interference. Advancement in any bureaucratic career requires the consent of some oversight agency, stocked with political cronies. Accordingly, if you do not play ball, you do not advance. More regrettably, if you confront the political interference, then they will amass together, like the cowardly parasites that they are, and trump up charges against an FBI agent in order to discredit his/her service.

Given the long delays on Kingdom of Mountain Brook interviews, clearly, SAC Carmen S. Adams has to be related to one of the Kingdom of Mountain Brook students that went on the trip or she is under severe, political pressure from an influential, elected official, related to one of the students.

Remember, to achieve SAC status, Carmen S. Adams could not have been the token bimbo in order to accredit the agency with advancing women. She earned it!

With Aloha,


Posted by: harry at January 10, 2006 2:32 PM

Albert,I remembered hearing that Croes is a common name in Aruba. The reason I asked you the question about a Mr Croes is because a friend of mine whose son was on the trip was telephoned numerous times by a Mr Croes in the first week after Natalee disappeared. I could not remember the first name of that Mr Croes and hope to goodness it was not that Charles Croes person you wrote about earlier. He certainly does not sound trustworthy. I knew I had heard Rudy Croes mentioned many times, forgive my senior moment for not remembering his official title! So Harry, you do not expect MB teens to ever be questioned again?

Posted by: jewels at January 10, 2006 2:52 PM

Dear jewels:

Congressman Bacchus, to me, is a typical alligator-mouth, hummingbird-butt type of fellow. He looks good for the media. You are correct. There exists way too much political interference in this case. To me, the main persons of interest are Virginia Page and Frances Byrd. Virginia Page will never be interviewed!

When the Twitty-Holloway camp and the Council of Cacklers for the media denounced the possible political connections in Aruba with Paulus van der Sloot, then knew, first hand, what they were denouncing ... their own routine practices.

With Aloha,


Posted by: harry at January 10, 2006 3:19 PM


Why will Virginia Page never be interviewed; what distinguishes her from Frances Byrd? Is she the possible connection to the SAC?

I found a listing of students, but no one with the last name of Adams, but the name could be her spouses' and I have no way of knowing what that might be. Also, it coul be a nephew or niece also. Or one of the chaperones could be related to her. Its just awfully quiet everywhere and its frustrating.

Do you feel that the call for people to come forward is really addressed to anyone at any location and they are not just asking for Aruban citizens to come forward with anything they know? I took it to be more directed to the MB area myself. MO Moey

Posted by: moey at January 10, 2006 5:29 PM

Hi Albert,

I ahve taken the liberty of bringing some of your comments over to RWV for discussion. I have always indicated where they may be read and many have come to read Harry's comments and the comments of his readers. In fact I notice Pathenry has joined us.
Yesterday, Maria from Aruba was answering you directly on RWV. I should have brought it here and now I can't find it. Perhaps if you have a chance you will come and join us in our discussion. You too harry we would love to talk with you. Here is the link:
You may have to have a TypeKey identity but it is an interesting and intelligent group, you won't be disappointed.
Harry, you are doing a wonderful job!

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at January 10, 2006 5:52 PM

Jewels @ Jan 10
Miller now saying he didn't support the boycott? Was it after Aruba said "No more freebies"?

Posted by: laced at January 10, 2006 6:39 PM

Dear Little Bo Peep & Moey:

The reason why information is scant is because the American media made a circus of this investigation, and it appears that their bludgeoning of Aruba's judicial system has created an international incident with members of the Dutch Parliament. Now, the few sources of information that we had are unwilling to release any news.

Arubans express themselves on this site, and we cherish their input. Feel free to continue to copy and paste their comments as you have.

With Aloha,


Posted by: harry at January 10, 2006 6:48 PM

this just keeps getting better Nats in the US think i

Posted by: peter at January 10, 2006 6:49 PM

Albert, Others are posting on forums that the press release said Natalee is not alive.

Posted by: Friend at January 10, 2006 7:11 PM

Albert, Others are posting on forums that the press release said Natalee is not alive.

Not exactly...The statement is saying that "Most possible a crime has been comitted and that she has been killed". Reading between the lines is an art. Neither the Police Team and the P.P. office can confirm that she is not alive. Bear in mind that the three suspects has been in custody for a long period of time and that the main reason for their arrest was that Natalee has been killed. Changing any terms and or law articles at this very moment can not be expected.

Thanks for your reaction.

Posted by: Albert at January 10, 2006 8:06 PM

Albert, Others are posting on forums that the press release said Natalee is not alive.

Dear sirs,

My statements and posting are directly for this blog. For many reasons I dedicated time and efforts to provide as much possible informations from Aruba and from my media's in a very simple way. I trust in the credibility of this blog and do request that whoever wants to be part of this blog I will more then happy to reply to them. I do not believe neither trust any other then this particular blog of Mr. Harry. I will not go on other blog since they have been very onesided and therefore I do not participate with them. Thanks for your support Harry! If they want they can come on this blog too!!


Posted by: Albert at January 10, 2006 8:13 PM

I just saw the other blog, and guess what Harry??? God I am proud to use one..


Posted by: Albert at January 10, 2006 8:19 PM

Dear Friend & Moey:

From the scant comments coming in from all sources, this case has all the appearances of going cold. Pleading for inputs, making requests for past suggestions and laying down on interviews, this case will be cold before January 2006 is over.

As for the press release that Natalee is not alive, one has to wonder what breakthrough produced that conclusion. I have not read that press release, yet, but I suspect it is just wishful thinking by some poster on one of the more sensational blogs.

If the request for inputs was released in Aruba, then I suspect it refers to Aruba alone. After all, Natalee Holloway had three hours on her own before she was seen around the Holiday Inn. Someone hade to have seen her.

With Aloha,


Posted by: harry at January 10, 2006 8:26 PM

Hi Albert,

I ahve taken the liberty of bringing some of your comments over to RWV for discussion. I have always indicated where they may be read and many have come to read Harry's comments and the comments of his readers. In fact I notice Pathenry has joined us.

Dear sirs,

My statements and posting are directly for this blog. For many reasons I dedicated time and efforts to provide as much possible informations from Aruba and from my media's in a very simple way. I trust in the credibility of this blog and do request that whoever wants to be part of this blog I will more then happy to reply to them. I do not believe neither trust any other then this particular blog of Mr. Harry. I will not go on other blog since they have been very onesided and therefore I do not participate with them. Thanks for your support Harry! If they want they can come on this blog too!!


Posted by: Albert at January 10, 2006 8:29 PM

What is this I have heard..that NONE OF the Alabama TEENS were in any official capacity... interrogated? They were interviewed. They were ASKED to come forward. They were NOT FORCED, by the FBI to come forward. It was by invitation ONLY. There were NO supeoneas handed out to any of those young adults to come in for questioning, for an ongoing investigation into Natalee's disappearance. Some even declined the "invite". The ones that DID show up, were asked only a couple of questions, and were allowed to leave! That was all it was in the investigation in BAMA! Ridiculous! That is why Rep. Bacchus spoke out and said, everyone on that trip should be interviewed. Who is being protected in that town?

Posted by: Donna at January 10, 2006 8:45 PM

Harry and Donna: Thank you for confirming this again. I have never been able to find anything about formal statements having been taken from any of the MB students/parents/chaperones; all I've ever heard is a bunch of double-talk by Beth, Jug and other family members.

We just heard this evening that a grand jury has been convened in the George Smith disappearance/murder/whatever. Now my question is why wasn't a federal grand jury convened in the Holloway disappearance? If that would have been done, those called to testify would have given testimony under oath when everything was fresh in their minds. I don't know what it takes to convene a federal grand jury in a matter that occurs outside of the US, but if they could accomplish it in the Smith case, why not in Natalee's case??? Thanks Moey

Posted by: MOEY at January 10, 2006 9:00 PM

Harry, Is there any way to find out what is really going on with FBI in Bham? The channels to go through to get answers? Emailing Bachus? It is all so very frustrating. Also, I know there have been reports that Natalee was seen at Holiday Inn...around 3am, is that correct or not? Could you refresh facts on that info and what exactly was reported. That seems so huge. Thank you. And "laced," don't know when Miller was interviewed regarding boycott...just passing on what I read, that he never supported boycott at any time. Don't know if that is true or not.

Posted by: jewels at January 10, 2006 9:14 PM

Dear Moey:

Where grand juries are convened, the issue at hand is to determine whether or not a crime has been committed. Since for all current purposes Natalee disappeared on foreign soil, those persons empowered to call a grand jury may be awaiting the results of the Aruban investigation, before they act.

Currently, there exists no evidence that a crime has been committed. Some evidence would be required in order to draft a presentation for the prosecutor to indict. Without that evidence, the grand jury would be unable to draft a presentation.

Succinctly, why call a grand jury, if Natalee Holloway just ran away. I suspect that some hearsay, collected by the FBI, hints at a runaway. Likewise, the alleged Natalee letter explicitly communicates a runaway.

With Aloha,


Posted by: harry at January 10, 2006 9:17 PM

Dear jewels:

Getting any information of out of the FBI is difficult. My recommendation would be political interference. Contact someone you know in the political arena and ask that person to contact Congressman Bacchus' office and request info, clandestinely. That may be the only method in order to get a handle on what is happening.

My opinion: Ruffner Page carries more clout than you do (I'm guessing, I don't know this for a fact). He will insist on loyalty from bureaucratic servants under his pressure (influence). Remember, it was Virginia Page who was partying with Natalee on that evening in question. Given Joran's jelly-shot comment, how can one refuse to accept that what Natalee was doing was not what Virginia engaged in? Ruffner Page will not allow Virginia to be exposed with that sort of reputation (I would not either). Also, Natalee is the niece of a senior executive of a US $50 Billion Asset bank. These guys are going to clam up. Political careers will be a stake in order to protect the children of these big time players. This is not Aruba. This is Alabama. Political interference is a fact.

As for Natalee being sighted at the Holiday Inn after 3:00 AM, the Aruban police have two or three declarations from security forces stating that she was there. Some of the Kingdom of Mountain Brook teens, likewise, made confirmatory statements. Of course, they are silent now.

With Aloha,


Posted by: harry at January 10, 2006 9:31 PM

Dear Harry,

After receiveing the press release from the P.P. office together with the Police Force of Aruba, a spend some time ananlizing it and making some phone calls. The press release that we receive at our office is stated in papiamento, which is our local language. I spoke with one person which aI shall keep his identity and he stated that the investigation team did some investigations on the investigation itself and they came to some conlcusions. They will insist that a crime has been committed and that Natalee is dead. The reason that they will maintain this idea is because of the fact that Natalee is not to found alive. They have to maintain this status because till the day of today Natalee did not show up and is nowhere to be found. The day that someone sees Natalee and can proof her existance the investigators will ceased their efforts and close the case. As long this is not the case they will have to keep focus on a posible crime that has been committed and that had cost Natalee's life. This way of working is not new and not strange at all for those that know what an investigation is all about. No new evidences in the case. Just a press release to inform that the case is ongoing and that anybody that might have some informations can show up and testify. In the early stages of the investigations many witnesses had been interogated by the police. Most of them changed their testimony on the second or third round of interogations. This concludes that they just wanted some attention due to the presence of the US media. In Aruba itself most of the community wants this to have a final. We still believe that the investigation most go on and whoever that might have informations must show up. That includes everybody....Beth and Jug is on the list too Harry!

Posted by: Albert at January 10, 2006 9:46 PM

Dear Harry,
Over the months I have come to know and trust you implicitely so I understand why Albert has decided to only post here. I know, Harry, if you give out information that it is absolutely correct. Thank you, then for understanding that sometimes I bring your information over to RWV because sometimes the site is rampant with information, not from Dan, but from his posters which is not always exactly correct. Many times your information has clarified and corrected things before it became disinformation. The more correct information that gets out there the less incorrect information becomes fodder for the thriving internet rumor mill.
I thank you Albert for all or your hertfelt information. I understand your need to get out the truth on the blog. Thank you also Harry, over the months, you have taught me quite a lot with your posts but mostly you have made me really think and I sincerely appreciate that. Thanks also to those who run this blog. Sometimes you have information before anyone else and it is always right on the money!
I am a loyal reader and I thank you for allowing me to be a loyal commenter.

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at January 10, 2006 9:48 PM

Dear Albert:

The resolution from the Aruban investigator is understandable. Why continue an investigation, if you believe Natalee ran away?

My editorial this evening should go hand in hand with the resolution of the Aruban investigators.

Of course, I should highlight a caveat that I do not subscribe to the resolution of the Aruban investigators; although, I respect and understand their position.

With a smile, I appreciated the glory-seekers in the early days of the case. I spent too much time discrediting them.

With Aloha,


Posted by: harry at January 10, 2006 9:59 PM

I always asked, Why the Ale is not able to make held responsible Mansur for interfering with the case?
Is it possible to force Beth to come and declare? So if they need to gather further information, she will not go voluntarily... Besides, she keeps on misinforming. Is it possible to give her gag order??
Monsieur Harry,
Why in Mr. Smith case FBI silenced the widow and in the Natalee case, they allow auntie Twitty to do so? Both are international.
How does it work with the law of international waters???
Merci to both,

Posted by: antoinette at January 10, 2006 10:37 PM

Thought you and your readers might want to see this list:

2005 Mountain Brook High Graduates
Thursday, May 26, 2005

Mountain Brook High School commencement was May 24 at the Wright Performing Arts Center.

Honor graduates are Milner Benedict Owens, Casey Lawrence Raymond, Alexander Jobe Fix, Joanna Michelle Smith, Jori Ellen May, Carlie Hannah Stein, Sarah Eleanor Israel, Thomas Andrew Davis Jr., Yang Cao, Joseph Anthony Carley IV, Matthew McClelland Lukens, Amy Powell Roebuck, Edward Urban Kissel IV, Marquerite Lee Lucas, Allison Amanda Mays and Katherine Lynn Bluhm.

Class officers are Seth Capper, president; Katherine Miller, vice president; Mallory Sylvester, secretary; and Milner Owens, treasurer.

Candidates for graduation:

Sarah Brannon Ager, Robert Thurman Agnew III, Yelena Iosifovna Aleksandrovich, Sara Emily Allen, Jennifer Deborah Allon, Frank Martin Alverson Jr., Alexandra Ruth Anderson, Natalie Stewart Anderson, Taylor Brookings Anderson, Nicholas Arciniegas, Elizabeth Garrabrant Ard, Ann Sara Ascherman, Alvah Votelle Barron IV, McLean Carlisle Bean, Blayke Hanan Bearman, Craig Shipley Beatty, Catherine Elizabeth Beckham, Brandon Heath Benson, Dewi Aryanthi Billano, Ariel Bitran, Hannah Stewart Black, Barbara Blount Blackburn, Colin Adams McNeer Blanton, Katherine Lynn Bluhm, Danielle Lynn Bogart, Ryan Jay Broda, Kevin Louis Broday, Steven Isaac Bromberg, Lee Ashford Broughton, Anne Campbell Brown, Holly Graves Brown, Jeremy Edward Brown, Katherine Lee Brown, Ruth Ann Brown, Allison Elizabeth Bullington, Kathleen Davis Burg, April Suzanne Burgin, Sarah Payne Burton, Christopher Alfred Bush, Frances Ellen Byrd, William Randolph Byrd, Elizabeth Lewis Cain, Jessica Ann Caiola, David Preston Camp, Andrew Todd Campbell, John Holmes Cantrell, Yang Cao, Seth Frederic Capper, Joseph Anthony Carley IV, Patrick William Carey, Nicholas Salvatore Carley, Brandon Victor Carlisle, Elizabeth Anne Cezayirli, James Barnett Chenoweth III, Tatum Elizabeth Clanton, Ashley Nicole Cobb, Philip David Cohn, Phillip Mason Colgin, Ann Belton Collins, Megan Olivia Collins, Christopher Adam Cook, Gaines Richmond Cooper, Rebecca Ann Cooper, Wiley Howard Cooper V, Richard Thomas Corbett Jr., Jamie Blaine Davis, Thomas Andrew Davis Jr., Lauren Anne Deierhoi, Jessica Anne Delo, Shannon Elizabeth Denney, Griffin Fleming Dewey, Katherine Parker Dillard, D. Alan Dillenberg IV, Jonathan Brent DiNicholas, Mason Dean Donovan, Isa Gavrielle Dorsky, Marwan Nabil Douban, Kareth Alane Dow, William Maring Drennen, Dawson Elizabeth Drinkard, Mary Ellen Dumas, Spence Michael Taylor Dye, Anne Martine Elliott, George Bondurant Elliott III, Jennifer Mallay Fain, Amy Elizabeth Fall, Claire Stuart Fierman, Alexander Jobe Fix, Julie Michelle Fleming, Richard Abbey Force, Molly Coker Fowler, Michael Ethan Friedman, Elizabeth Ann Gaffney, Julia Sims Garcia, Brooke Marie Gardner, Emily Cora Gaston, Stephanie Lynn Geldzahler, Thomas Edward Gleason, Allison Gayle Goldberg, Cristina Cecilia Gomez, Andrew Mackenzie Green, Elizabeth Marie Haley, Leon Columbus Hamrick III, Miller Field Hamrick, Thomas Bryan Hargett, Virginia Anne Harkins, Jack Allen Harris II, Lindsey Lee Hart, Rebeka Brawford Haynes, Wesley Logan Haywood, Minnie Bell Haynes Healey, John O'Sullivan Henderson, Katie Louise Henley, Avery Lauren Henry, Trevor Allen Stewart Holder, Natalee Ann Holloway, David Andrew Horton, Greer Mack Horton IV, William Garrett Horton, Elizabeth Patton Howard, Marjorie Jackson Howard, James Phillip Huggins Jr., Sean Christopher Hussey, David Gregory Hymer, Robert Christopher Israel, Sarah Eleanor Israel, Richard Lee Jackson III, Mary Conyers Jernigan, Carly Lauren Johnson, Wright Sterling Johnson, Kelley Elizabeth Joiner, Alana Janelle Jordan, Elizabeth Lawson Jordan, Laura Taylor Jordan, Noel Amberson Jordan, Michael William Jordan Jr., James Frank Justice, Joseph Paul Kalin, Sarah Adele Kalin, Christopher Liang Kao, Stephanie Leigh Karagas, John Hunter Kearney, Raleigh Barbee Kent IV, Natalie Beth Kianoff, Alex Oliver Kimerling, Isabella Naumann Kimerling, Victoria Patton Kimerling, Edward Urban Kissel IV, Thomas Edward Kitsmiller Jr., Vicki Anne Koslin, Kathryn Bowdoin Lalor, Justyn Elizabeth Lamb, William Mark Landau, Kay Houston Lanier, Cole Martin Lanter, Noah Abraham Larsen, Tracy Rae Lazarus, Amanda Jean Lee, Martha Martin Legg, Eleanor Paulette Lewis, Mark Aaron Litvine, Rachel Anne Lofton, Marguerite Lee Lucas, Matthew McClelland Lukens, Anna Louise Lynch, Frank Morgan Lynch III, Kendall Walton Maddox II, Elizabeth Margot Major, Stephen Christopher Marino, Charles Douglas Martin Jr., Allie Franks Matthews, Jori Ellen May, Allison Amanda Mays, Ryan David Mazer, Thomas Reid McBrayer, John Chappel McCollister, Samuel Robert McCord, Mary Frances McDougald, Kurry Lynn McElveen, Michael Odum McGill, Mackin Elizabeth McKinney, Ruth Berrien McVay, Sean Michael McVea, Lillian Chambliss Mears, Thomas Lee Merrill III, Melissa Faye Middlebrook, Benjiman Howard Miller, Carlos Eduardo Miller, Katherine Elizabeth Miller, Katherine McTyeire Millhouse, Bradley Daniel Morgan, Emily O'Neal Morgan, Enoch Carter Morris IV, Margaret Whitney Morris, Michael O'Neal Morris, William Coleman Morris, Thomas Michael Morrison Jr., Russell Hardy Murphy, Katherine Mary Evelyn Myers, Patrick Ryan Nappi, Tor Zachariah Nelkin, John Hughston Nichols, Andrew Jackson Noble IV, Rachel Eve Nomberg, Michael Patrick Taylor O'Neal, Milner Benedict Owens, Virginia O'Neal Page, Samuel Tate Patterson, Marian Courtney Patton, Casey Carlisle Payne, Caroline Carson Perkins, Joseph Hunter Phillips IV, Robert William Plumb Jr., Franklin Adams Pritchard Jr., James Moody Proctor III, Thomas Michael Putnam, David Walton Rader, Thornton Hope Ratliff, Bruce Alan Rawls Jr., Casey Lawrence Raymond, Christopher William Reuther, Bryan Montgomery Reynolds, Daniel Wesley Richeson Jr., Brian Connor Riser, Sarah Savannah Roach, Anna Catherine Roberson, Mary Elizabeth Roberson, Amy Powell Roebuck, Carly Rogoff Richard, Irvin Roth Jr., Christina Ashley Rountree, Emily Beth Rousso, Matthew Pelham Rowan, Katie Michelle Rushing, Stephanie Lynn Saia, Kristen Janeil Sandefer, Stephen Tyler Sandlin, Rachel Christine Saxon, John Slade Screven Jr., Mary-Katherine Sellers, Valgerdur Nielsen Sherer, Abby Lee Siegel, Jessica Lee Simmons, Mary Elizabeth Sims, Joanna Michelle Smith, Lauren Dyann Smith, Miriam Ann Smith, Spenser Holloran Smith, Marie Margaret Smyly, Sara Marie Smyly, James Nicklaus Stacy, Stephen Murray Statham, Carlie Hannah Stein, Yona Stein, Shannon Louise Stewart, Rebecca Claire Stivender, Kathryn Elizabeth Swecker, Mallory Kate Sylvester, Alice Tang, Molly DuBois Tate, George Clinton Thompson Jr., David Vandiver Thorpe, John Evan Tompkins, William Edward Traylor, Catherine Scott Tucker, Mallie Elizabeth Tucker, Mark Richardson Tucker Jr., Lane Perritt Turbeville, Thomas Allan Twitty, William Hunter Twitty, Haleigh Nicole Uncapher, Christopher Forbes Vargo, Jackson Robert Vaughan, Murry Caldwell Vaughan Jr., Andrew Fitz Randolph von Kuhn, Kyle Lawrence Wall, Margaret Brooks Wall, Elizabeth Cade Walston, Rachel Katherine Walton, Whitney Littrell Warwick, Margaret Frances Watson, Nancy Laraine Watson, Ryan Mathew Watson, Katherine Jane Weatherly, James Paul Weinacker, Allie Michelle Weiner, Joevelyn Welden, Brent Matthew Westlake, Katherine Madison Whatley, Thomas Hunter Molton Williams, Millard Lamar Williamson III, Crossley Edward Willis III, Mary Lassiter Wood, Katherine Ann Wright, Vivian Brooking Yeilding, Emily Grace Zeigler.

Posted by: Researcher at January 10, 2006 10:45 PM

Thanks Researcher!


Posted by: harry at January 10, 2006 10:50 PM

Mademoiselle Antoinette:

I suspect you could explain the disparity in the Smith case versus the Holloway case, as political interference, pure and simple.

All I case tell you about international waters (high seas) is that rules governing any nation do not apply. What comes into effect in what is known as Admiralty Law. Under Admiralty Law, the flag of origin determines which country's law apply aboard the vessel on the high seas. Only if treaties exist, enabling other countries to share jurisdiction, can they encroach upon the rights of the vessel.

If the FBI entered the investigation quickly, with authority, in the Smith case, then the cruise liner must have either flown a USA flag or a international treaty was in place enabling them to do so.

With Aloha,


Posted by: harry at January 10, 2006 11:03 PM

We've all seen the home videos of Natalee Holloway through the media. Or have we? For those of us that have, for those of us that are parents and have the skills and ability to look at home videos of an 18 year old girl (when she was 15 or 16 years old) and quickly grasp her attributes, please continue reading. For those of you that can't perform this simple exercise, skip this post and carry on.

I can sincerely imagine that the majority of parents that have seen these few home videos of Natalee Holloway would have just loved to raise a girl like this. She was very pretty, very feminine, bright, half shy and lacking in strong self confidence. She more than certainly looked like a very friendly and positive human being. This girl was not tough. She didn't have a tough bone in her body. To say the least, she was a pushover.

There is now way on this green earth that a girl like this, if alive, would watch her parents on television go through what they have. A girl with these qualities, if alive, would have contacted her parents a long time ago to tell them to stop what they were doing. A girl like this would perhaps not tell them where she was, but she would definitely not sit and torture them for 7 months.

This girl didn't have the moxy to hurt a fly, let alone her whole family. For anyone who has followed this disappearance from day 1, we know in the back of our minds that this poor girl is dead. This girl didn't possess the "ass" to plan a scheme to run away in a foreign country. She lacked the self confidence and life skills to do so. In my life I've met and seen many young women that would have the qualifications to pull something like this off. But these women are hard core, street smart and have the skills to con you out of your wallet. This does not apply to Natalee Holloway. Young women that have this abilty don't come from an affluent home where they have obviously been sheltered. They come from broken homes where they have run away at a very early age. Natalee Holloway obviously came from a decent environment. For anyone who has read this far and is a decent parent can understand this if they have seen the home videos of this girl. I knew where my two kids were going when they were 4 years old.

I can understand what's going on in the NH blogs. So far there is no proof that she's dead. So what.
I won't speculate on the way this case was investigated. I'm not that foolish. It was handled the way it was. That's that. Be that as it may, and having the fact that her family has done what they feel they've had to do since last September doesn't relieve any of us from retaining the simplest and most obvious answer. This you will understand of course if you have the simple ability to know what this girl wasn't capable of.

Girls like Natalee Holloway simply don't sit and purposely torture their families for 7 months.

Posted by: Jim Hanson at January 11, 2006 3:31 AM

Jim : They come from broken homes where they have run away at a very early age. Natalee RAN AWAY AT A VERY EARLY AGE! SHE COMES FROM A BROKEN HOME! SHE DANCE ON THE BAR AND LEFT WITH STRANGERS IN FRONT OF MANY PEOPLE WHO KNEW HER PARENTS! IMO in the very beginning I believe Beth used the media to help find Natalie!
Soon after Beth started using Natalie to find the media .

Posted by: rib at January 11, 2006 8:09 AM


Thanks for the response regarding the grand jury. You hear so much about the Aruban LE 'knowing' that NH is dead and that a crime was committed, so that is why I was questioning the possibility of a grand jury being convened.

To carry this one step further, do you think that the Aruban LE came to DC for the 'conference' with whatever evidence they have, presented it to the FBI/DOJ or other agencies and at that point those agencies started their own investigation, etc., and that obviously is going to take a long time and in the meantime we will not be hearing anything about what is going on? Perhaps that is why they excluded the Twittys and/or any of their legal counsel. At the press conference following the meetings the speakers were extremely tight lipped and gave virtually no information.

Also, I appreciate Jim's point of view, but I disagree about Natalee and her running away and the home video. I saw a whole different person than what he described. Again, this is just my perception, but she did not appear to be the 'happy-go-lucky' teenager that she has been portrayed to be. Whether she was in the car, with her dance team or in the group picture hanging out with a bunch of friends, she never seemed to be really relaxed like most the teenagers I am around. She almost seemed like she had to present as 'perfect,' in those shots. AGain, that is just my perception. I don't necessarily think she orchestrated this whole thing, but I wouldn't discount it. If there were problems at home either between her and her mom or her stepdad, I could definitely see her deciding to run in another direction, she certainly has the brains to carry out such a thing. I know her passport was left in her room, but in most areas it is possible to obtain another one and in a lot of cases in the Caribbean you only need a DL for travel, not a passport (until 2006). But again this is all speculation, but I don't believe her running away is out of the realm of possibility; the same with the possibility that she is dead. However I find it a little harder to believe that she is dead as there is absolutely no forensic evidence to support that theory; unless it has been kept under wraps, which I doubt becuase they would have charged someone by now if they had that kind of evidence. IMHO

Thanks again for a great site and discussion; it is so civilized and you don't mind speaking or asking questions because you are going to be treated with respect. I do appreciate that and all the posters here. Moey

Posted by: moey at January 11, 2006 11:52 AM

Albert, the discussion over at RWV centers around the fact that some posters are indicating that the aruban prosecutor and Dompig have found holes in the alibis of at least two of the former suspects and that they see this as an indication that the suspects will be rearrested soon, as soon as the kid's body is found when they come to search. Are they on the right track. Are the answers indeed in Aruba. Will these boys be rearrested again soon. They seem to think that "the case is breaking" and it will all come down to the three boys. Albert, what do you think?

Posted by: stormyweather at January 11, 2006 6:20 PM

Natalee doesn't have to be found for there to be a trial. It does sound as though Dompig has solid information on where to look for her body.

Posted by: Bitsey | Wednesday, January 11, 2006 at 06:31 PM

Albert, is this the case?

Posted by: watcher at January 11, 2006 6:34 PM

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