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January 11, 2006

HarryTho 1/11 Natalee Holloway Commentary

Topics: Natalee Holloway

This evening, I will explore the possibility that Natalee Holloway was carried out to sea while swimming. Earlier today, one of our posters, an Aruban, related that 5-knot currents embrace the island of Aruba from south to north. But more importantly, near the north end of the island where the Holiday Inn and Mariott are located, the currents come dangerously close to shore.

One estimate was that the currents came within some 150 feet (50 meters) from the shoreline at night. This means that someone venturing out at night could easily be entrained in such a current. Once within the grasps of the current, at 5-knots, they would be unable to return to shore under their own strength.

For some background information, I provide the following links to Caribbean currents:

The Caribbean Current

The Antilles Current

ecar2.jpg on ftp.aoml.noaa.gov

Project NOPP Drifters - Drifters in the Southwestern Caribbean

A map of the Caribbean Sea is useful to acquire one's bearings with respect to these currents.


Aruba_map.bmp


zoomed map

Location of the Aruba hotels:

Please note that the hotels lie just north of Oranjstad. The Marriott Resort is the northern most hotel on the island. The Holiday Inn resides just a tad south of the Marriott Resort.

According to our poster, a 5-knot current veers within 150 feet (50 meters) of the shoreline along the Holiday Inn and Marriott Beach. Notice how the shoreline in that area recedes inland sharply, creating a siphoning effect with the current. Any abnormal eddy flow characteristic, described in the Caribbean current links above that could have cause that siphoning effect to be more pronounced, would have produced an entrainment much closer to the shoreline. Someone may not have had to swim that far out in order to be overwhelmed by the effects of the current's entrainment.

What does this current data have to do with Natalee's disappearance?

On the night of Natalee's disappearance, separate security forces identified and declared that Natalee Holloway was swimming in the ocean off the Holiday Inn at 3:00 AM. Declarations also exist that the Kingdom of Mountain Brook students were concerned for the swimmer's safety for swimming out so far. How far has not been divulged. It must have been quite far for them to have been concerned. Although statements were made that the swimmer was another girl from the Kingdom of Mountain Brook that looked like Natalee, her identity has never been released. I believe we can state for a fact that someone resembling Natalee Holloway was swimming in the ocean, far off shore, the night of Natalee's disappearance.

If we employ the notions that we learned form our editorial on Roshomon, we can deduce that it is conceivable that the person swimming in the ocean at 3:00 AM was in fact Natalee Holloway. Why? Her classmates realized that Natalee was in trouble in the ocean. Unfortunately, they could only watch as she was dragged farther and farther out to sea by the entrainment of the current. How could any of them explain that they just watched her being carried out to sea? That would be unthinkable. They needed to mask their helplessness, and what they perceived to be their cowardice. How could they face anyone and say they watched as one of their classmates drowned without even raising a hand to save them?

Our poster explains that it may take only 5 or 10 minutes for a body to be dragged miles out to sea. A 5-knot current means you are five miles away from where you started, in one hour. In 10 minutes, you are practically a mile out to sea. How much time did the students have in order to react to Natalee's predicament? Assuming they were alert and watching her, they had but a few minutes. Recall, they were partying it up. From the pictures of the students (Morris & Byrd) that we posted in our past editorials, none of the students were in any shape to retrieve Natalee or anything from a swimming pool, much less an open ocean swim.

How did this happen? What persuaded Natalee to swim so far out?

From someone living on an island, I can attest to how the tides/ currents can fool a swimmer. If the tide is with you going out, you get lulled into believing in the strength of your swimming ability. It is when you turn to swim back to shore that you discover the tide pulling you back seaward. This is what could have happened to Natalee. She may have been accustomed to swimming pools and lakes or ponds where no tide or currents exist. It is easy to be fooled. You feel great swimming out. Besides, the salt in the ocean makes your body more buoyant. You feel almost invincible in the salt water.

Against a 5-knot current, whether assisted by the tide or not, a strong, capable swimmer would have little chance to overcome. A swimmer that is inebriated would have even less of a chance. She would tire quickly. Her body would experience water-shock, and she would succumb.

Swimming

Water-shock slows your muscles and makes it difficult for a person to swim.

This a terrible scenario, but it is no one's fault. The Kingdom of Mountain Brook teens should just come forward. Had they tried to save Natalee, they too would have been drug out to sea and suffered the same fate as Natalee.

A comment on sharks:

"When they do attack a human, the weight of evidence now suggests, they have mistaken a person for a seal or some other prey, and most often will spit out human flesh after the first bite. The problem is, of course, that the one bite comes from jaws that are up to 3 ft. across and lined with hundreds of knives."

Sharks do not look for humans. All that "Jaws" stuff is pure media hype. It is Greta, Nancy and Rita all over again.

"Human shark victims almost always seem to be inadvertent intruders rather than targeted prey. Scientists who work with sharks know how dangerous they can be, and many are critical of the guided shark-feeding tours that are proliferating in Florida and the Bahamas. Sharks there have begun to associate the sound of an outboard motor with food, and there have been attacks by sharks apparently impatient to be fed, according to George Burgess, head of the International Shark Attack File. Shark feeding is illegal in two Florida cities, and a campaign to ban it statewide is under way. ' When you are training animals, you are changing their basic behavior and their respect for human beings,' says Burgess.

That would be a strange development: the ocean's fearsome hunters lured unnaturally into the company of humans -- then learning to bite the hands that feed them. Nature has its bounds."

In the news, the Amigoe Newspaper reports that the three suspects in the Natalee Holloway case will not be re-interrogated unless new evidence is discovered.

ARUBA - The three suspects in the Holloway-case will not be interrogated for the time being. Steve Cohen, spokesperson of the Strategic Communications Task Force announced in several American media that they would be interrogated. But suspects cannot be forced into new interrogations, unless there is new evident, which is not the case.

Right before the turn of the year, the Public Prosecution (OM) had sent the lawyers of Joran van der Sloot, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe an invitation for a conversation. Anthony Carlo, Van der Sloot's lawyer: "We did not accept the invitation."

One of the issues during the conversation would have been the recording that Jami Skeeters had made of Deepak Kalpoe and broadcasted it in Dr. Phil's show. Also the brothers Kalpoe had declined a conversation with the investigation team. The Court released the suspects from custody in September and the OM didn't like this. Neither of them had to remain available for interrogations, meaning that this can only be done voluntarily now. This can only happen if or when the OM can come up with new evidence.

Also In the Amigoe, an article that may have some bearing on our expose of the Parmer Capital Group appeared, citing a union negotiation with Isla refinery. It appears the refinery's labor contract with the local union has expired. Interesting timing for Hushang Ansary!

In other news, Aruba Truth announces that Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour will not support the boycott.

Governor Barbour does not support the boycott because he doesn't think its appropriate.

"I am more accustomed to Mississippi being on the receiving end of people boycotting us because they don't like this or that," he told The Meridian Star newspaper. "I am not favorably disposed toward that device."

In a side note, just thought that I'd let readers know that we're adding a forum "feature" to Hyscience, and it should help to add to the dialogue and exchange of ideas that we've come accustomed to sharing. I think our Hyscience readers will be pleased, and it should be up and running in just a few days.

On cable - Rita dove into the Cruise Ship murder. She employed the same cast of characters that were used in the Natalee Holloway case. Given their opinions in the Holloway case, it is difficult to take any one of them seriously and with any degree of credibility. Rita followed with an interview of the Brancata family over the ill-treatment of their son by the police. The Brancata lawyer claimed the son is innocent of the murder of the policeman. The lawyer quoted some pertinent law that does seem to exonerate his client.

Greta expounded on the Turkish police involvement in the Cruise ship murder, and is repeating the sequence of yesterday's stories.

In reflection, I cannot watch Greta or Rita without questioning the accuracy and motivation of their news. Their coverage of the Natalee Hollway case has made me suspicious of everything that they air.


With Aloha,

Posted for HarryTho

Posted by Richard at January 11, 2006 10:23 PM

The "ocean current" scenario is a plausible one. 50 meters is not very far off the beach at all. A very dangerous situation for someone not familiar with the area.

However, what do we make of the letters that were supposedly sent by Natalee several months ago?

Posted by: Sandstorm at January 11, 2006 11:27 PM

Wouldn't Natalee have left her shoes on the shore before taking a swim?
I don't recall that her shoes were found.

Posted by: justice for natalee at January 11, 2006 11:48 PM

EquuSearch Chief Miller “supports Beth’s boycott 100%” after what he calls ugly encounters with Deputy Chief Dompig last Thursday and Friday. According to Miller, Dompig could have helped EquuSearch by requesting additional equipment from the FBI. However, rather than requesting the equipment personally, he instructed Miller to go through the Chief Prosecutor’s office.

Frustrated, Miller called off the search and left empty handed. Miller asked Greta last night, “Do they really want Natalee found?”

This is another evidence that Tim Miller is a liar. Tim made a statement that he never took part in the call for a boycott and never gave his support for this. This was published in Amigoe di Aruba yesterday! Your comments Harry.

Harry allow me to brief you regarding the coast of Aruba. Aruba has a constant north east trade wind. This create a rought north side were it will be imposible to swim. There were cases of suicide at this area but al bodies has been found so far to my knowledge. At the other side what we call the Palm Beach area is were most of the resorts are build. The blue undeep water makes it a perfect area for swimming, snorkeling and diving. If something is to be thrown in the water in this area it will come back ashore. This is because of the underwater curent that is keep coming back to the beaches. If Natalee was to be thrown in the waters, automaticly part of her body will be washed asshoreno matter how far
this could have happen. Bear in mind that Aruba is out of the huricane belt. The only thing that we might have during trhe hurricane season is some heavy rain and winds coming from the opposite side. If this happen the Palm Beach area most of the time confronts trouble because the ocean is throwing all the garbage on the white beaches. So if Natalee was trhown in the water then her body should have been found back on the beaches because of the changes in the wind directions that took place in many occasion in the last hurricane season.

Regards

Posted by: Albert at January 11, 2006 11:54 PM

To Albert, sandstrom & justice:

What I am proposing here is that Natalee went swimming off the shore of the Holiday Inn while she was inebriated. Her classmate saw her swim out into the ocean. It was not a short swim. She felt comfortable in the salt water. The tide was going out. When she turned and tried to return to shore, she could not overcome the tug of the tide pulling her seaward. The tide and then the entrainment force of the current took her farther seaward. Her friends called often to tell her to not swim so far out, but she could not yell for help. She was too far out, struggling in the water and inebriated.

Her friends, realizing the desperateness of the situation, failed to assist her. Some may have swam out, but realized how far she was, chose wiser and returned to shore.

How would they explain this to anyone? So, they decided to cover it up. They removed whatever clothing she took to the shore and discarded it.

In this scenario, we must rely on Roshomon responses and a conspiracy from a number of the Kingdom of Mountain Brook students. Also, from what I have learned from the Caribbean currents, the currents are erratic and subject to random eddy effects. That means that the possibility exists that an abnormally strong current could have exerted effects closer to shore that evening in question. If this is in fact the case, then it could explain how Natalee got entrained by a current so close to shore. Remember, all witnesses claimed that they feared for the distance the person swam from shore.

Now, the letter is interesting. It is postmarked from Arkansas and appeared when the focus seemed to be headed in the direction of the Kingdom of Mountain Brook students. Her classmates knew Natalee well and may have had some of her stationery or even hair samples. If they orchestrated a cover up of her being taken out to sea, then they could have concocted the letter as a diversion to the upcoming interviews.

I believe the foregoing fits. It probably fits better if the wind over the shoreline in question that night was calm.

Please note, Albert, that I am proposing that for whatever reason Natalee swam (or pulled) out beyond the point where the ocean forces moving seaward overcame the wind forces moving shoreward. The ocean forces pulled Natalee out into the 5-knot current running parallel, south to north, with the shoreline of Aruba.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 12, 2006 1:04 AM

Wouldn't Natalee have left her shoes on the shore before taking a swim?
I don't recall that her shoes were found.

Posted by: justice for natalee at January 11, 2006 11:48 PM

Natalee was wearing (black?) flipflops. If someone found them on the beach he/she would probably have trown them away. These sort of items are regularly found on beaches. No one would have connected them to a crime, because the beaches were searched only a couple of days later!

Posted by: Also_Dutch at January 12, 2006 3:11 AM

One poster, claiming to be one of the MB student's mother, who mentioned that the youth by the pool saw a female that they originally thought might be Natalee swimming, said that they called out to her to come back in. This poster also said that the female was swimming with a Dutch male. Now how could a group of intoxicated youth out by the motel pool tell if this was Natalee (or not) at night given what must be a long distance from the pool to the ocean? And even more unbelievable, is that if someone was swimming with her, that they could determined it was a "Dutch" male.

And another unbelievable - - what good would it do to shout from the pool to people in the ocean? Could anything they said be heard from there, even if on a loud speaker? (NO. Only possible for yelling to be heard if right on the shore, and maybe not then. I go to the beach a lot and have yelled my head off trying to call in kids and sometimes have to go in the water closer to them to get their attention, or at best do wild arm motions at the shoreline to get them moving back to shore because they cannot hear me. This is daytime and they are pre instructed to watch in case I am calling them in.) So the very notion of people yelling from the motel pool to people swimming in the ocean is pretty ridiculous.

If they were concerned about the couple, they would have to run down the beach to the shore and wave arms and yell at the shoreline. These youth would have known this. Given the distance from the motel pool to the ocean, based on pictures I have seen, if this girl was Natalee, my guess is someone was down on the beach by the shoreline and saw her, maybe called out to her from there.

If she did drown that night, and someone knew it, I think somebody was already working on a patsy to be blamed - the Dutch male. If they had just said a "guy" then possibly believable, but to know it was a "Dutch guy" one would have to talk to the male or hear him shout in Dutch or recognize him as someone they knew who is Dutch. But the poster claimed that the youth decided that the couple were not people they knew. Got that eyewitness to a "Dutch" male in the story though and there may, or may not have been a male with her.

Posted by: shonane at January 12, 2006 3:13 AM

Some of the shark attacks in Florida have occurred in areas where people are surf fishing and have bait with them. The sharks smell the bail and bite the person.

Posted by: shonane at January 12, 2006 3:15 AM

I personally favor the "swimming" theory. But I doubt if any of the MB kids saw it. The pool, where they say they were hanging out, is at least 30 metres from the ocean, perhaps more, and there are palm trees and whatnot in the way. I don't think that the kids would notice anything that was going on in the (unlit) ocean, and Natalee would have had to be well offshore. Keep in mind that the waters close to shore on Palm Beach have little current.

Posted by: Gary at January 12, 2006 3:35 AM

If she died on the beach! its would be easy to get her 50 feet out !

Posted by: rib at January 12, 2006 7:07 AM

This is because of the underwater curent that is keep coming back to the beaches. If Natalee was to be thrown in the waters, automaticly part of her body will be washed asshore no matter how far.
(Albert)

The undercurrent is going direction ocean and not to the beaches. You can feel it if you stand still in the water. Body is pushed above by surface water to the beach and pull below(legs). Start at 50 meters and up to 1.5km where the ocean current takes over. Look at the Aruba map and draw a virtual line from the most western point(above Oanjestad) to the most northern point the already famous Lighthouse. To the right of this line are the calm swimming waters and hotels/resorts with undercurrent, closer to the line becomes stronger, and left of this line the ocean current.

The nightmare for locals fishing at sea(SouthWest) in a small boat: Engine trouble, no radio, cellphone no contact and all this in sight of the coast and family home. To row is not an option. Hopefully someone or some large vessel will see them because the island is waving a goodbye to you as it passes on the right. This happens in Aruba, ask the locals(Savaneta-Pos Chiquito), I do remember.

Washing ashore is because of the wind or a storm with large waves and hence the current circling around the northern part of the island.
Body's are found because they are clasped between rocks or otherwise down in the sea, never floating after a longer period. In Oranjestad harbour or in the lagunas protected by reefs it is possible. North is different, the waves and current hits the island direct. Swimming is not possible, dangerous steep rock coast and strong high waves. A body or object here is thrown at the rocks untill nothing is left or eaten by little sea animals like crab-fish or larger.

Like Harry: ALOHA!

Posted by: letstalk at January 12, 2006 8:52 AM

Thanks Harry,
Very logical conclusion for Natalee's fate. Maybe a good way to close this book. I have enjoyed reading everyones theories and ideas over the past months. But this one is it for me. RIP Natalee Hollaway and God Bless your family....Shivas

Posted by: Shivas at January 12, 2006 10:13 AM

Complimentary reading for Jim Hanson ( just in case he missed it) of yet another fine masterpiece composed by our very own Althor.

Enjoy Jim and please do point out any hatred that you feel is contained in the masterpiece as I was not able to observe any while reading it.

Without further "ado"DRUM ROLL PLEASE!!!

Apparently, this Natalee Holloway / Beth fracas is finally grinding down to a halt. However, as we have seen before, it is wont to raise its ugly head once again when least expected, as it, amazingly, so often has in the past, even in the face of unimaginable catastrophes and other crisis, and the total lack of new developments to report on the case! Let us then take a minute to look into the forces that have made of this farce, such an enduring phenomenon, and what is endemic to them!

On May 30th of last year, one Natalee Holloway, a teenager who had been allowed by her mother to go on a “Graduation Celebration” trip to the Dutch Caribbean island of Aruba with 124 of her fellow Graduates, to engage in a “Spring Break” styled, “Girls Gone Wild” Bacchanalia brimming with booze, drugs, and plentiful gonads, went AWOL.

Immediately the media, with the help of the missing teenager’s family, particularly her mother, made of this “family tragedy” a huge stink, and turned the whole ordeal into a media circus, a soap opera, and a TV reality show such as those in vogue today, sensationalizing it for
ratings, blowing its coverage way out of all proportion to other more pressing news and developments taking place at the time, where the excessive coverage given this Natalee Holloway fiasco, has repeatedly trumped news and reports on terrorist bombings in European Capitals, floods in India that caused the death of thousands, three monstrous hurricanes which devastated our Gulf Coast, almost obliterated one of our major cities, and have killed thousands and affected the lives of millions, a massive earthquake in Kashmir that caused over 84,000 casualties in Pakistan and India, and left 120,000 survivors homeless in the face of the harsh oncoming winter, killer floods in the North Eastern United States, killer tornadoes in the Mid-West, and sundry other natural disasters and calamities; not to mention such other mundane occurrences as the War in Iraq: the casualties, the Geo-Political implications of the conflict, and the isolationist, defeatist, partisan attitudes it has engendered in so many of our politicians, the continuing turmoil in the Middle East, the continuing “War on Terrorism” throughout the world, and the growing, looming, nuclear threats from North Korea, and Iran, amongst others, all of which have been either summarily reported on, briefly touched upon, or mostly ignored, while huge amounts of air time have, and continue to be lavished and wasted on this miscreant girl’s mother, and the Pundits, hashing and rehashing nothing but the same old, stale, baseless, variations on a theme: accusations, rumors, allegations, innuendos and defamations with the ill intent of “malice” towards an entire island Nation, amazingly, in the face of the scant evidence in this sordid case that any crime was even committed much less to indict anyone, and that the girl in question may have just chosen to run away, for whatever reasons!

This Natalee Holloway media fracas, however, has placed in the “limelight” not only Natalee’s wailing Banshee of a mother, who has grown exceedingly fond of basking in the undue notoriety, and the unmerited “Celebrity Status” accorded her and its attendant lifestyle at the expense of her “grief,” and her daughters dissappearance, who has made of asking for donations for the alleged “search for her daughter,” Public Appearances, appearing on TV shows as a missing persons “Consultant,” and of “Lecturing” at High Schools on the dangers of parents and teenagers repeating the same lack of parental discretion, and outright lack of common sense that were the catalysts for her daughter’s demise, a cottage industry, but has also revealed in stark ugliness all that is wrong with our media, our culture, and our interpretation of “Democracy!”

From the very beginning of this debacle, I have denounced the media’s sensationalistic infatuation, and the unjustified amount of attention they have devoted to covering this case, especially when in the face of the lack of forthcoming “developments” to report on from the investigating Aruban authorities, they, and Natalee’s mother and family, began“manufacturing” those “developments” resulting in the campaign of hear-says, rumors, innuendos, false or baseless accusations, defamations, and scandalmongering that followed!

From the very onset, I have always been a staunch supporter of Aruba and the Aruban People, when many others where howling on the forums and blogs on the Internet to “nuke” the island, or “invade it,” and I have stood up for the right of the
“suspects,” Joran Van Der Sloot, his father Paulus, and the Kalpoe brothers, to be “presumed innocent until proven guilty,” in spite of the call by many to have them “lynched,”or“murdered,”
and for all my efforts to broach the matter justly, and fairly, with common sense, have been but vilified, insulted, maligned and “banned” from all sides!

When I tried to reason at some sites in my posts, that the amount of coverage given this case was
“sensationalistic” and improper, and condemned Beth for parading before the ubiquitous cameras in her alleged “grief,” handing out improper, sappy, “Prayer Cards” to the unsuspecting Arubans on the street, as if she was running for Mayor of Oranjestad, or was a door to door salesman hawking vacuum cleaners door to door, or her supposedly by chance “impromptu” appearances followed by camera crews at the Van Der Sloot home to impose herself on them, or at the Internet Café to hound Deepak Kalpoe, as if she were not a “grieving mother,” but the participant in some grotesque, and twisted, TV reality show, I was banned from said sites, for my “monstrous lack of empathy for Beth’s loss of her child,” and for “bashing” her!

When in turn, I responded in proper French, Spanish, and Dutch, to some malicious yahoo at another site, who had posted in bad French some derogatory comments about Aruba (no doubt trying to show-off in his or her ignorance), since, though I am an American and live in the US, yet I do speak fluently several languages, I was then “banned” for being a “Dutch Troll”!

When I then posted some obvious observations in support of Aruba on a Right -wing site discussing Natalee and her “Media Circus Mom,” I was threatened with “virtual” violence ( I wondered at the time if a hand was going to pop out of my monitor and hit me), insulted, and summarily banned, I suppose deemed unworthy to wear their “white hoods” because of my comments!

Subsequently, when I joined a site that delights in “bashing” Beth, and showering her with all the opprobrium known in the annals of humankind (in many cases rightfully so), and but proceeded to defend America, our Country, from the uncalled attacks by some who began to crawl out of the woodwork to use Beth’s reprehensible behavior: her monstrous ingratitude to the Aruban People who opened their arms to her in her hour of need, and to her followers and searchers, with their unparalleled hospitality, generosity, and support; the ignorance, arrogance, and provinciality of many of our compatriots; and the banality of certain inbred, backwoods, Southern “Good Ole’ Boys” Governors who chose the demagoguery of jumping on the Beth “Boycott Aruba” bandwagon, hoping that being in the “spotlight” with this media maven woman, would advance their future political expectations; as an excuse to venomously “bash”
America, and everything “American,” from President Bush and his policies, down to our participation in the freeing of Europe from the clutches of Nazi Germany and our pivotal role in Europe’s reconstruction thereafter, even so far as to calling America a “Second World Country,” versus their failing, socialistic, secular “First World Countries,” in total disregard to reality, and to the context in which said comments were made, namely the Natalee Holloway discussion, I but yet again was “banned” as a “Narrow minded Right-wing Nationalist!” (I wonder, if the fellows at that other Right-wing site I previously mentioned have heard about it? If they have, they may even condescend to lift the
“ban,” and invite me back on their site...to wear their “white hoods." Disgusting!)

Which leads me dumbfounded to ask: “What in God’s name, is the “correct,” “sensible,” “just,”
“fair” position I am expected to take in this case, since I cannot possibly be wrong to, and banned from, all sides at the same time!!! Of course. I know the answer, but if I point this out, is to emphasize all the absurdity that has surrounded this sordid case, and all the “manipulations” to which it has been subjected by everyone involved, from Beth, the Pundits, and the media, to the myriad “ignoramuses” that post about it on the web, all of them perniciously turning this girl’s disappearance, into nothing but a “vehicle” to serve their own aims!!!

One of our Founding Fathers, First Amendment framer James Madison once said, "A well-instructed people alone can be permanently a free people." Knowing all there is to know about Natalee will not help us preserve our freedom. Yet, our media maintains our populace enthralled with all this garbage, wether it be Beth and Natalee, the hellish machinations of “charming” Scott Peterson and the murder of his wife, the Michael Jackson “Monkey Trial” escapades, or the now in vogue delving into the “murderous, honeymooning, drunken wife” who went non-chalantly to a “massage appointment” on board her Luxury Cruise Liner early one morning, after apparently chucking her bleeding, young, bridegroom overboard earlier that day, no doubt wishing to relax herself, as well as to help her get sober in the process!

In this we are reminded of the Roman Circus Maximus at the Colisseum, where just as with our television screens, people came to see
“spectacles,” the “mock battles,” and indulge their morbosity in watching the gratuitous violence of gladiators hacking each others to death, and the bloody gore of the beasts rending the flesh, and tearing the limbs, from the condemned, while bread was given to the Roman audiences, just as much as we sit nowadays, in ignorance, watching Hollywood’s gratuitous violence and gore, or watching sensationalist refuse such as Beth’s wails, Michael Jackson’s trial, or the mis-adventures of Jennifer Wilbanks, the “Runaway Bride,” on our television screens, while eating our “TV Dinners,” oblivious to more impacting and pressing matters that we face as a Nation, and as a society in general, worldwide! How can our so called “Democracy” survive, if those who “Rule” with their votes, are ignorant of the issues, and kept “lulled” by such idiocy?!?!

Now, it is written that “those who do not heed the lessons of History, are doomed to repeat its follies.” This, of course does not only apply to Ancient History alone, as in the case of the “Fall of Rome,” but to Modern History as well, as is the case with our recent, self-imposed, “defeat” in Viet Nam.

The American Media keeps shoving down the collective throats of our “Rex Populis” all that is banal, sensationalistic, and scandalous in order to satisfy their morbidness, for no greater altruistic motives than ratings, while for the most part ignoring its primary role as the eyes and ears of the Nation, in a self-serving vicious circle, which, if the shade of things to come does not change, will help bring about our downfall, as assuredly as Rome’s, instead of presenting audiences with in depth, accurate depictions of what really lies out there beyond their livingrooms, and beyond the borders of America, and the dangers it not only poses to our Nation, but verily, to our very own way of life?!?!

Thus audiences are, for the most part ignorant, and remain uninformed, because it is more “entertaining” to watch Beth “wail” on Greta every night, or Nancy Grace touting the disappearance of the latest “bimbo,” while our ignorant, isolationist, demagogue, politicians, in a perfect example of the “blind leading the blind” indulge their nostalgia for their Viet Cong flag wielding days of their youth, by trying to make of the present war in Iraq another glorious, defeatist “Viet Nam,” and point to every difficulty that naturally arises in the conflict as a “quagmire” irrespective of all the advances, military, political, and economic in the region, to call for our American troops to come “running with their tail between their legs” back home, while surrendering Iraq to the insurgents, without apparently gaging the extent of the negative consequences of such an action, which will then result in far, far more American losses eventually, than those of the Heroic over two thousand deaths of our valiant Service men and women who have so far laid their lives down for us, that they so vehemently harp about in their rhetoric!

In the bitterness of their “Partisan” defeat at the Polls, they oppose every word, action, proposal, and policy that comes out of the White House and the Administration, irrespective of its merits, and many of them seem to ardently wish that we would fail in Iraq to satisfy the sense of vengeance on their part, irrespective of those aforementioned young men and women of our military, who would have then died in vain in this cause, whose deaths they use so effectively as an excuse to justify their treacherous, self-serving political positions, without the least care of how a Jihadist victory in Iraq, will become the catalyst that will most likely change the face of future history and the fate of humanity for the worse, and might even usher the end of civilization as we know it!

Again, as in Rome, the increasing emphasis in our society on secular “materialism,” the decline of “moral values,”the increasing “effeminateness” of our Nation, as witnessed by the media’s, and Hollywood’s obsession in portraying everything from children’s cartoons on PBS, to Alexander the Great (though redundant to any student of History, given the Ancient Greek idiosyncrasy that believed the feminine to be utilitarian and inferior, a perfect male body the greatest expression of beauty, and sexual intercourse between a male student and his teacher, or amongst male friends, the greatest show of affection), to even the otherwise stereotypically
“macho,” and “rugged” cowboys, as “gay,” will eventually, if unchecked, unequivocally result in the downfall of our Nation just as it caused Rome’s, proving once again that old adage that “History repeats itself!”


So, bring out the popcorn, and pull up your easy chairs, and let’s all sit and watch Beth once more on Fox, play re-runs in her brain, saying once more the same stale, old things she’s been uttering for months, unchangingly, with nothing new to say, or watch Nancy Grace’s snarling mouth as she pours out her daily dose of vitriol; listen to Geraldo laying it down “nice and cheesy,” or to one of the media’s many
“politically correct,” so called “liberal” Secular-Progressive biased news programs! Who cares if the Muslim Jihadists impose upon us all a “Caliphate” as the Turks did in the Balkans, upon the Serbians, the Macedonians, the Greeks, the Cypriots, and others for hundreds of years of oppression, or that the winds of a “nuclear winter” be howling outside our doors? We sit drooling, cozily watching Greta once again interviewing Beth on our television screens, and that suffices!!!


Althor

Posted by: bizman at January 12, 2006 11:55 AM

Hi Harry,
While watching the senators desperately grab for something, anything msnbc ran a promo for this evening's Rita Cosby "Live and Direct" program and I was shocked to hear the following "Beth will be discussing her reasons for stopping the investigation." Yes, by the third time I knew that I had not mis heard. Harry, under what conditions can the mother of the missing person do this?

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at January 12, 2006 12:25 PM

It would be interesting to see what each poster on this board would do if Natalee were they're daughter.
Posted by: dr_usa_23 at January 11, 2006 06:45 PM

DR: Well I can give you an up-to-date answer for our family as our 15-year-old granddaughter, whom we are raising, is going to Guatemala with her Freshman (HS) class in March for a mission trip and this is what we are doing (some things already done). This is what we would have normally done whether or not there would have been a Natalee Holloway/Aruba case or not.

1. Registering he passport, picture and itinerary with the US Department of State;
2. Making sure her cell phone operates in and out of all of the countries she will be visiting;
3. We will have a list of all the students, parents, chaperones, teachers along with home addresses, cell phones, pagers, etc., at our home/work place.
4. She will have two prepaid calling cards allowing her to make calls from a payphone or land phone from the areas she will be visiting.
5. A variety of dollars in the local currency to keep in her bag just for some type of emergency situation.
6. A complete itinerary of their locations on a day-to-day basis along with phone numbers where they will be staying.
7. Explicit instructions on absolutely never, under any set of circumstances, is she to go anywhere by herself or unaccompanied by at least two others from her trip, absolutely no matter what the circumstances might be. This has been drilled into all the kids going on the trip.

Can something still happen? You bet your bippy! All you can do is prepare as best as you can and send them off with their eyes wide open. I would do many of these same things even if she were traveling in the US. My theory is there is no 'perfectly safe place' anywhere but in your own home and there are times that is questionable also for some. Anyway, for what it is worth that is what we are doing and I'll let you know next April 1 how things went. They will be in a very remote area most of the time, but that does not mean a guarantee of safety either. Thanks Moey

Posted by: MOEY at January 12, 2006 12:45 PM

Harry:

Is this Rita Cosby thing just a ploy to grab viewers? Beth Holloway can't have that type of standing to call of an investigation either here or in Aruba -- UNLESS she has the answer to the million dollar question "Where is Natalee." Do you think this is possibly where this is going and if it is, why wouldn't she have used Greta to go on TV, they seemed to be pretty buddy-buddy. MO Moey

Posted by: MOEY at January 12, 2006 1:33 PM

Dear Little Bo Peep:

Beth Twitty could have obtained information that would warrant a cessation of the investigation. Natalee could have come home or called her mother and introduced her baby. The FBI could have provided Beth with proof of life that her daughter is fine and living somewhere else. The alleged letter from Natalee could have been authenticated.

If there is no reason to investigate, then Beth Twitty could inform the Aruban authorities of such.

With a smile, a Kingdom of Mountain Brook student could have read this editorial, or the posts leading up to it, and decided it was time to come clean. I have to admit: the students identifying a "Dutch" guy in the ocean with Natalee from the swimming pool or shoreline at 3:00 AM just breathes Roshomon.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 12, 2006 1:46 PM

Greta is schedule to have Beth on her show Monday Night.

Posted by: Mary at January 12, 2006 2:09 PM

I'd like every poster here to think about something very deeply for a few moments. Could any of you pretend that you were missing or dead for 7+ months and torture your whole family, watch them on TV rag shows, and go to the lengths of calling for a boycott on Aruba travel while watching the insanity that this has all become? Think about it. Could you? Well if your answer is yes, you would obviously possess certain traits: You would be one pathetic, twisted, psychotic, cruel and unfeeling human being.

For those of you who are claiming Natalee is alive, she would certainly also possess these attributes as well. So you particular posters that feel she is alive would certainly have to admit that Natalee Holloway was this kind of human being.

I, among many of my friends who are all parents and have rasied our children into their twenties, all concur from what pictures and videos we have seen of this girl, that there is no chance whatsoever that she is capable of doing the above mentioned. We are all secure about our conclusions. We, believe it or not, are capable of perceiving the inherit traits of this girl.

I mentioned this in another post above, and was called names. I was told I had lost my credibility here because of it. I've was called a "psychic" by another poster as well. Isn't this a bit childish when what I am saying to you hits YOU posters right between the eyes? It is simply something that you cannot ignore. I was also told to go to Scared Monkeys and post over there. Well, I used to try and deal with the cretins over at Scared Monkeys and gave up, came over here, and have seen the opposite side of the coin. This blog is no different than Scared Monkeys. When a very sensible and logical post (such as the one I am writing here) is entered into the thread, it interferes with many peoples theories that she is alive. All this conjecture only exists because a body hasn't been found. That does not discount the idea that she is dead. In fact many missing person's bodies aren't discovered for years, even decades. So in fact when a post like this here reaches certain people, they are angered for one simple reason: It makes their theory appear incorrect. Some lash out, like they have at me. Once again, this blog is no defferent than scared monkeys except for one fact. Most of the posters here are more intelligent and older than the Monkeyites.

We all know that Natalee Holloway doesn't fit the bill to torture and continue torturing her whole family. Some of you won't admit it, but you know it's true. So this leads to my and many others conclusion. Because Natalee wasn't capable of doing this to her family, she is not alive.

Now if you can't accept my and many other's LOGICAL opinion on this matter, please don't lower yourself to Scared Monkey status and call me names and assume that I have no crediblity to post on here.

Girls like Natalee Holloway don't torture their entire family by pretending to be dead for 7 months and continue to do so. Once again, do any of you posters here possess the sick, psychopathic and hating personality to do this to your OWN family?


Think about it and react like an adult.

Posted by: Jim Hanson at January 12, 2006 2:32 PM

Jim:

I respect your opinion. However, none of us know or knew Natalee, Jug, Beth, Dave or anyone in their circle personally (I am assuming that you did not know them personally).

From what I have seen and from what I know of living with a teenager 24/7, I do not think that anyone can say with any certainty that Natalee or any other child would not disappear under a particular set of circumstances. I don't know what those circumstances might be for any one individual, but I'm sure there can be a point reached by any child where she/he states, 'enough is enough, I'm out of here.' I don't presume to actually know what may have happened in Aruba, in Mountain Brook or anywhere else Natalee may have lived/visited, but I do think there comes a point for every individual where the partricular circumstances become overwhelming and you would do something drastic whether it be disappear, commit suicide, marry someone and run off or a myriad of scenarios that are limited only by ones imagination.

I don't think you can 'read' someone just by looking a a few clips of video on TV; perhaps glean some clues as to the person, but nothing indepth. I'm not a psychologist/psychiatrist and have never worked in that field, but that is just my humble opinion.

I do respect your opinion and right to your view. Thanks for the discussion. Moey

Posted by: MOEY at January 12, 2006 3:08 PM

Jim:

Why are you still posting here? Do you enjoy the company of a poster with "sick, psychopathic and hating personality?" You must, because you keep returning with the same line. If you think that of us, then either move on or commit yourself.

OK, you think Natale is dead. Good for you. You should explore how she died. We might enjoy reading your theories; however, we do not desire to hear your accusations and belittelings. There exists other blogs, thriving on such exchanges.

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 12, 2006 3:11 PM

I didn't mind Jims post , or others for that matter... but to listen to Althor BITCH about news and Beth and partying and the man on the moon and taking up space on this blog because he is BANNED from everywhere else, doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me...Thats the pot calling the kettle black.

The swimming theory is a crock as well. Who in their right mind would swim in the middle of the night in the OCEAN????(In a secluded area-apparently no one was there.... Drunk or not, not many...by themselves??? naaaaa

Posted by: eyesore at January 12, 2006 3:31 PM

"Girls like Natalee Holloway don't torture their entire family by pretending to be dead for 7 months and continue to do so. Once again, do any of you posters here possess the sick, psychopathic and hating personality to do this to your OWN family?


Think about it and react like an adult."

You'd be surprised how simple it is.

On one of the blogs early in the case was a woeful tale out of Europe where the brother of a poster informed that the brother since 3 always wanted to join his country's military force, relishing the day he could sign up, that day came and he failed owing to some odd medical reason undiscovered, he was so despondent, he went home packed a backpack walked out of the house and was not seen or heard from for 18 months, eventually he was spotted alive and well in a Southern part of Europe. So despondent was he that the last thought in his mind was what his family would think.

This happens all the time everywhere in the world.

Posted by: Dave at January 12, 2006 4:35 PM

Hi Harry and all,
Those of us who comment frequently generally do so when we feel we have something meaningful and important to add to the mix. We are a collegial group, we respect one another. We don't resort to "name calling" or "belittling" when someone doesn't agree with us. Instead we accept that we disagree or we bring forward the information that we have that cause us to conclude the opposite. Most of all, we think and we think carefully. For the most part, our little group of commentersm has been very happy hear reading what Harry brings forward and adding our comments. We would ask anyone who wishes to ruin our nice system to please think about it and ask yourself why. Harry and his gracious hosts have said that everyone is welcome. Just, please keep in mind the rules you learned in kindergarten and we will all get along fine.

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at January 12, 2006 4:39 PM

OK, you think Natale is dead. Good for you. You should explore how she died. We might enjoy reading your theories; however, we do not desire to hear your accusations and belittelings. There exists other blogs, thriving on such exchanges.

Harry


Harry I am not belittling anyone here. I said in that post that I was belittled, told to leave this blog. If anyone was accused of anything, it was ME. I'm stating my opinion. And it certainly upset you, didn't it. Why don't you admit that I may be correct when I say that if people feel she is alive, that they must also think that she must be a horrible, twisted human being to torture her parents this way. This is simple logic. It is not belittling anyone. Rather than say what you did to me, why don't you tell me instead what kind of girl Natalee is/was in your mind, for you know I am right. If Natalee IS alive, she must be a really horrible, if not psychotic human being to be doing this to her parents. Am I not correct Harry? Would a kind, shy girl like Natalee have the ability to do this? Why not answer me, instead of telling me I should go elsewhere to state my opinion. I'm simply stating that I and some of my friends who have grown children as well do not believe that Natalee was capable of this. We think she is not alive.

Do you expect every reader to believe that she ran away in a foreign country when she didn't have the confidence or the life skills to do so? I've listened to these theories for a long time now and have yet to comment on them until now. So be it. Am I not allowed to state my opinion here? ""I"" am the one who is being belittled because of it.

Feel free to tell me whether any of you would do this to your parents? It's either yes or no.

Posted by: Jim Hanson at January 12, 2006 4:55 PM

Jim:

Just leave the blog.

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 12, 2006 5:15 PM

Jim:

Again,I respect your opinion. Others have other opinions, maybe several.

I would like to know why you are so adamant about Natalee's personality and not being the type of person to hurt her parents. Do you not think it is possible that a person could be pushed to such a degree that they would do something totally out of character or different from what anyone would ever expect them to do? I really feel that any person could be pushed to that point, no matter what facade they may have presented to their family, friends or others up to the point they decide to do something. I'm not saying you are wrong, she certainly could be dead, she could be hiding, she could be in some other country or she could be in the ocean, no one really knows and the people who have further information that might lead to what happened are not talking, period. Stalemate! IMHO Moey

Posted by: MOEY at January 12, 2006 5:16 PM

Wow..how come this has turned into...a blog, where the posters have become the topic, and not the not discussing the topic of Natalee Holloway?

This is craziness. State your opinions, do it respectively. Instead we are having posters here to take everything so darn personally, then lash out, in a personal way, when there is an opposing view.

I won't be a part of yet another blog, where it all comes down to personal fighting between the posters, and the total topic of this blog goes to the wayside.

Most of you are adults, act like one. Debate is good, debassing each other, is childish.

Posted by: Donna at January 12, 2006 5:20 PM

We don't resort to "name calling" or "belittling" when someone doesn't agree with us. Instead we accept that we disagree or we bring forward the information that we have that cause us to conclude the opposite.


Posted by: Little Bo Peep at January 12, 2006 04:39 PM

Ok Bo Peep, bring forth some information to show me that if you feel Natalee is alive, why you would discard the notion that she would have to be a very unbalanced, hard nosed and psychotic girl to be torturing her whole family.

Posted by: Jim Hanson at January 12, 2006 5:24 PM

Dear eyesore:

I am not prepared, or inclined, to provide you with a psychological profile of Natalee Holloway. I am not prepared to theorize that she swam at night into a known, 5-knot current in order to commit suicide because she was pregnant and could not face the consequences.

Despite your disbelief, the fact is there exist declarations that Natalee Holloway was, in fact, swimming at 3:00 AM in the ocean off the shore of the Holiday Inn on the morning in question. Whether you believe that or not is none of my concern. Those are the facts on record with the Aruban police.

I encourage you to disprove those declarations, if you have evidence otherwise.

Your support of Jim is commendable. I admire you for that.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 12, 2006 5:24 PM

dr_usa_23 @ Jan11, 2006

If Natalee HAD been my daughter, I would have heeded earlier reports of the "girls gone wild" theme for Grad. Don't tell me Beth is naive! I wouldn't have pre-paid for "all the booze you can drink" all day long!! I would have put in extra money for a different trip, possibly even a late trip to a good ski resort. No I don't force my kids to do what I prefer, and I don't follow the "Joneses", like it is necessary for the MB crew to "fit in". Life is a bitch sometime, isn't it?

Posted by: "laced" at January 12, 2006 6:04 PM

Dear rib:

The distance seaward, estimated in order to effect entrainment by the passing current, was 50 meters or 150 feet from the shoreline at the Holiday Inn. That would be comparable to the fifty-yard line on a football field from the end zone. It really would not be that far, but those taking her out would be likewise entrained. That is why I prefer the theory that she swam out on her own accord.

Another issue is that the effects of the current are not so pronounced during the daytime (I suspect this is lunar dependant and alternates accordingly). Natalee may have swam earlier during her trip in the same area and may have been unaware of the change in ocean's current effects at night.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 12, 2006 6:12 PM

According to a translation from Getagrip, the entire Van Der Sloot family has been granted leave to sue the government.

..."Now that the Superior Court has handed down the judgment in favour of Paul van der Sloot, he and his family are bringing a case of damages and prejudice against the Government..."

http://p073.ezboard.com/ftheunusualsuspectsfrm7.showMessage?topicID=598.topic

Posted by: dayo gould at January 12, 2006 6:13 PM

I would like to ask any of the "what would you do if it was your daughter" peeps..to answer this one:

What if your son, went out with a young gal, say they went out in a group setting. She got drunk, he tried taking her home, she refused, and told him she would be ok, and could find her own way home. He left her there.

She comes up missing.

He was the last KNOWN to be seen to be with her. Now her family comes pounding at your door at 3 am in the morning, screaming obscentities at you, your son, your whole family. Demanding their daughter.

Then the family goes on every talk show in the usa, and calls your son a kidnapper, drugger, predator, rapist, and a murderer constantly. You know your son is innocent. He's even arrested, detained in jail for 116 days.

What if this WAS your son? What would YOU do, how would YOU react?

Posted by: Donna at January 12, 2006 6:16 PM

Jim,

I am sure you would be much happier on another board as Harry so nicely suggested. Having said that I also add that it does seem you still have personal issues that you have not resolved within yourself. I would surmise you have become too persaonlly involved in this case to be able to look at at all levels. When this occurs sometimes a person needs to take a time out and reflect upon why this is affecting you the way it is.

Secondly,

Since none of us has ever talked to Natalee personally, and her Mother has provided us with no accurate information as to just who Natalee was or what she is about. No one can know exactly what Natalee is capable of doing or what she is not capable of doing, with the exception to the Mountain Brook teens, who have suddenly developed a convenient case of "Lock Jaw" on the instructions of Marcia Twitty.

There is simply no way that you are any of your friends can know that a crime has been committed or that Natalee is a runaway or that Natalee committed suicide. It is all guess work at this point, and the only way we can have any inkling of what Natalee's home life could possibly be like is by viewing the antics of her family. Teens are driven to do many outrageous things and we certainly cannot see Natalee go through a portion of some sort of a dance routine on tv and judge from that, that she would do this or she would not do that.

I could not even at this point be able to say positively what Natalee is capable of, without having several conversations with her. But I do know one thing from viewing Beth Twitty's behavior. plus that of her step dad, and her biological father, there exists a real possibility that Natalee was under a great deal of pressure and stress at home.

Pressure and stress on a teen, from a Narcissitic Mother, with Histrionic personality, and mental abuse hurled at her by said Mother, plus a domineering step father who has to "coach" her, plus a father who has replaced her with other kids, and dealing with the school pressures, plus the pressures of existing as a teen in todays world can cause these teens of today to do a lot of things, we can only imagine. It is very difficult to be a teen trying to find your way in the grown up world when you have a Mother who keeps knocking you down, and wants the focus on her.

If Natalee ran away, she would not be thinking about what torture other people would go through, she would think about the abuse she was leaving behind and escaping from. Bottom line Teens of today do not think of other people, and put that together with the fact that they have to struggle to get attention away from a Narcissistic Mom, is overwhelming.

So to answer your question, if Natalee ran away, or if by some chance she committed suicide, one can simply deduce that she was so miserable in her life that she wanted to get away from it. Is this possible, yes it certainly is. And also teens of today are different that teens of 20 years ago or more. Teens of today are doing a lot of drinking and druga, and are in the world of free sex. At best I feel Natalee should have been having some counseling due to what she was dealing with. That would never had been an option with Beth Twitty. That would have pointed out Beth Twitty's shortcomings, and she is too narrow minded to want to look at that.

So Jim, take a time out, and re-evaluate just why this bothers you so much, and I hope you get your issues worked out.

Good work Harry, this is the best blog on the web and I always enjoy reading your articles and I do appreciate being able to comment here..

Posted by: therose at January 12, 2006 6:27 PM

Donna, an excellent post, and you raise points that have been troubling many people from the start of this media mystery.

Please allow me the liberty of changing one of your sentences.

"...He was THEN the last KNOWN to be seen with her..."

I believe there is now sufficient testimony for an open-minded individual to presume that Natalee did make it back to the Holiday Inn after her meeting with Joran and that the vanishing goes forward from there.

Posted by: dayo gould at January 12, 2006 7:12 PM

The swimming theory is a crock as well. Who in their right mind would swim in the middle of the night in the OCEAN????(In a secluded area-apparently no one was there.... Drunk or not, not many...by themselves??? naaaaa
(eyesore)

Have done this many times with friends at night and lots of fun, never more than 20 meters(60 feet) from the Palm beach into the sea. Not for the current but mostly for the big fish that are active at night to look for a snack. A sandy sea bed is also very attractive for rays and do not step on these creatures. At night they come closer to the shore, waves none and water temperature is always higher above a sandy sea bed and near a beach, so they lay down on the sand.
Right, not in the ocean.

So what's the problem eyesore, visit Aruba!

Posted by: letstalk at January 12, 2006 7:27 PM

If she did drown that night, and someone knew it, I think somebody was already working on a patsy to be blamed - the Dutch male. If they had just said a "guy" then possibly believable, but to know it was a "Dutch guy" one would have to talk to the male or hear him shout in Dutch or recognize him as someone they knew who is Dutch. But the poster claimed that the youth decided that the couple were not people they knew. Got that eyewitness to a "Dutch" male in the story though and there may, or may not have been a male with her.


I was told about a tall Dutch male with green/blue eyes. Joran has brown eyes. Till the day of today investigators are looking into some details however not much has been said. One of the 7 chapparones had contact with this guy and was seen several times by the Holiday Inn personal. This guy frequently called the rooms at the front desk and some girls came down to meet him, including Natalee. However his discription does NOT match with Joran.

Posted by: Albert at January 12, 2006 8:40 PM

Harry, so after months of commentaries and theories, what, in your opinion, is theory you have have the most hope in being true? And to the "the rose", what if Natalee's life was not nearly that complicated? Perhaps she was just a normal happy girl in a blnded family (which millions of kids have to adapt to?) I don't know..none of us do really! Jim, I admire your honesty knowing what you were up against.

Posted by: jewels at January 12, 2006 8:41 PM

According to a translation from Getagrip, the entire Van Der Sloot family has been granted leave to sue the government.

This is NOT TRUE! The father mr. Paul van der Sloot is entitle to have a case against the Government of Aruba. So far it is not clear if it is due to his arrest or because he is still on suspented from his duties. Be carefull with your translation! Mr. Paul van der Sloot already won a case in court against the Public Prosecuters Office. Bear that in mind!

Posted by: Albert at January 12, 2006 8:45 PM

Dear jewels:

If I discount my personal preferences (runaway pregnancy), then a scenario similar to this editorial seems the most likely. I think she drowned accidentally, attempting to return to shore agaisnt the entrainment forces of the ocean currents. It is a simple resolution and much circumstantial evidence supports it.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 12, 2006 8:49 PM

I'd like every poster here to think about something very deeply for a few moments. Could any of you pretend that you were missing or dead for 7+ months and torture your whole family, watch them on TV rag shows, and go to the lengths of calling for a boycott on Aruba travel while watching the insanity that this has all become? Think about it. Could you? Well if your answer is yes, you would obviously possess certain traits: You would be one pathetic, twisted, psychotic, cruel and unfeeling human being.

For those of you who are claiming Natalee is alive, she would certainly also possess these attributes as well.
What if she does not cable?

Posted by: rib at January 12, 2006 9:19 PM

I agree i think she is in the US

Posted by: peter at January 12, 2006 9:37 PM

So far it is not clear if it is due to his arrest or because he is still on suspented from his duties.
(Albert)

Due his arrest + family.
Mr. Paul van der Sloot has a new job as a lawyer in a law firm! He will not be seen behind a government desk in the future.

Posted by: letstalk at January 12, 2006 9:52 PM

Here is the link to Paulus' new job.

Albert, you might want to recheck with your sources, as this was in the Aruba newspaper on January 11.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/index.html

The Van der Sloot family can claim damages

ARUBA – Paul as well as his family members can claim damages due to the arrest of Van der Sloot in connection with the investigation on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

The Common Court of the Neth.Antilles and Aruba decided this yesterday in the appeal case that was instituted by the family members of Van der Sloot. The actual damage claim case serves this Friday. In November, the judge in the court of first instance ruled that only the damages suffered by Paul van der Sloot himself can be considered for compensation. However, the Court of Appeals ruled in favour of the Van der Sloot family members that also the damages suffered by the family members, including Joran qualify for compensation. The Court decided that not only the suspects, but everybody that suffered a loss can claim compensation, including his family members.

Only damages that the family have suffered due to the arrest of Paul van der Sloot, not the arrest of Joran; that is a different matter. Lawyer Arie Swaen, who will represent Paul van der Sloot this coming Friday, doesn’t want to tell how much compensation the family is going to claim. “We have not agreed on that yet.”

Posted by: Dayo Gould at January 12, 2006 10:32 PM

Well then, if we are going to boycott something right now I would suggest we begin with Greta on Monday nite!!!

Posted by: Jan at January 12, 2006 10:34 PM

Good work Harry, this is the best blog on the web and I always enjoy reading your articles and I do appreciate being able to comment here..

Posted by: therose at January 12, 2006 06:27 PM

Hear! Hear! What a great post. You said so eloquently what I was trying to say severa posts up. Thank you.

To the person who asked about whether or not anyone here could put themselves in the place of someong causing heartache to a family over these past seven months. Under certain circumstances I could see myself doing that, not just as a teenager, but even as an adult if the situation was such that it was unbearable and leaving for my own peace of mind or safety would dictate me to do so. I don't live in a situation like that, but I'm sure if I found myself there, I would do something to change whatever it was that I was being subjected to. MO Moey

Posted by: MOEY at January 12, 2006 11:48 PM

Jewel,

The biggest point I was trying to make is that NO ONE really knows just what Natalee is like. Now definately something is not right in Mountain Brook, and within that family structure.

Posted by: therose at January 13, 2006 12:14 AM

Jim Hanson - I would concur that from what we think we know about her,that I would not first guess that she ran away. However, people are so unpredictable. These kind of things do happen when people would not expect it. Periodically we will hear a story about a man who disappeared that had what people believed was a happy family, and after the disappearance and time passed, all assumed he was dead. Then, maybe 15 yrs later he is rediscovered where he has remarried, had more children, and is a respected person in the new community.

Then there are the stories of the men who have 2 or 3 wives and lives in different cities and go on for years like this until discovered.

I hired a young woman once who seemed to be thrilled about her new job and promotion. She had a masters degree in the professional area and had established herself professionally. She did OK in her job, not a shining star, but satisfactory, and was liked by her coworkers. After she worked for us 6 months, she left a message on my answering machine that she had a family emergency in North Carolina and was catching a flight out, would call when she knew more. I never heard from her again. A contact to the place she was renting revealed that she had skipped out on her lease and taken her things. The short of the worry and search, is a few months later one of our staff did talk to someone who had talked to her and she was OK, living somewhere in the mountains in North Carolina. However, had that one connection not been made, then we would be wondering today if she was OK. I would never have guessed that she would have just disappeared like this.

People are unpredictable sometimes.

Posted by: shonane at January 13, 2006 1:58 AM

You're all still ignoring my question. Why not just admit that if you believe Natalee is alive, then she would have be a horrible human being to torture her parents this long. You know I'm right. You just can't admit it.

I'm far from personally involved with this case and don't need a rest from it. I'm just interested why you people can't admit that I'm right.

I'll tell you why. It interferes with your agenda here. And just cause an 18 year old girl drinks in Aruba and has a ball doesn't mean she doesn't have real values.

Come on, answer me and tell me that Natalee was a horribly unblanced girl to be torturing her whole family this way.

I can understand if Natalee was locked in the broom closet every day after school and fed bread and water every day, that she would run away. I could also understand if she was sexually abused by her mother and father her whole life. But we know this wasn't the case.

I think you're all to afraid to admit that Natalee would have to be a pathetic sociopath to torture her whole family if she was alive. You all know she wasn't like this.

You simply know I'm right. This is logical sense. and there's no getting away from it.

You all believe what you want to believe. You don't understand life experience and how it affects what you perceive. You believe a female poster on another blog when she says more than once that Natalee is pregnant, so you all simply believe it. But when a poster hits you with some logic that you know is true, you ask him to leave because it turns all your ideas upside down.

Scared Monkeys does the same thing.

Posted by: Jim Hanson at January 13, 2006 2:17 AM

Jim:

I must admit I did learn one thing from your latest, undesired post. I now know why Sacred Monkeys kicked you off their blog. And, here I was thinking Tom and/or Red just did not like your opinions.

All I can say to you, Jim, is whatever you are taking it is bad for you.

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 13, 2006 2:56 AM

I think you're all to afraid to admit that Natalee would have to be a pathetic sociopath to torture her whole family if she was alive. You all know she wasn't like this.

Jim,
You have it all wrong.Natalee would be a pathetic sociopath to torture the public at large by subjecting the public to her mothers media appearances and wild and unfounded accusations.

NO,Jim,we do not know if Natalee was subjected to sexual abuse or not,in fact we (and that includes you)dont have a clue what her home life was or social life for that matter.

So how about you admitting that you dont know jack shit about what you try and convey as the gospel.

You act as if you know things that have never been revealed.You also seem to have the perception that the Twitty household was a pilot for TV shows such as Leave It To Beaver,The Brady Bunch and so forth.You come across as if they were pure as the driven snow.I must ask you Jim,why do you do such?

Bizman

Posted by: bizman at January 13, 2006 8:16 AM

Have done this many times with friends at night and lots of fun, never more than 20 meters(60 feet) from the Palm beach into the sea.
So what's the problem eyesore, visit Aruba!

Posted by: letstalk at January 12, 2006 07:27 PM

My point -
was about Natalee swimming ALONE at night. Of course people do swim at night, but I just don't believe that she would swim by herself, in an Ocean, at NIGHT by herself.

I will make it to Aruba one day . I have been to other islands and even though the water is clear and beautiful, I still wouldnt swim in the Ocean at night..with or without friends..Also, didnt she want to go see the sharks??? Would their spot on the beach be near the sharks??? It just doesnt seem logical

Posted by: eyesore at January 13, 2006 11:25 AM

This is surely none of my business, but why is everyone jumping on Jim? Am I missing something?It appears to me that he has a different opinion than most, so he is asked to leave this blog? Pardon my butting in, but I would like to know what pushes buttons here to get thrown into the"Lions Den"??

Posted by: eyesore at January 13, 2006 11:30 AM

Dear eyesore:

There exists a difference between coming to our comment section and expressing your views and coming here to belittle those who have posted for their views in contradistinction.

Please keep that distinction in mind when you post, and you should fit in here comfortably.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 13, 2006 1:40 PM

Although the run away theory is still a possibility, I can also see the other possibility of her drowning in a night swim. I could see me doing something like that, perhaps enjoying my last night at a tropical oasis and wanting to get in one last swim. Perhaps even hoping that a swim would help me relax and sober up before I go back to my hotel room.
As for Jim, we don't know who Natalee really is. None of us knew her personally. All we know is what her mom and friends say about her. Maybe Natalee was a great girl who on her last night on a tropical island perhaps drank too much alcohol and ended up making bad decisions. Alcohol does strange things to people some think they are very philosophical, others just get wilder and more restless with each drink and yet others drink so much they start imagining things. I am sure it can affect people in hundreds of different ways depending on how much they drank, how strong the drink was, their body chemistry, the amount of food they ate, etc.
I also know that after the good time feelings end from being drunk, that many get depressed. WHo knows maybe she had just sobered up, felt sad about leaving or perhaps about something she had done on the island and decided to take one last swim in the ocean(maybe she was hoping it would give her a boost of energy or help her cheer up somehow) and she got caught in the currents and drowned.

Posted by: Belle at January 13, 2006 1:50 PM



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