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December 30, 2005

HarryTho 12/30 Natalee Holloway Commentary

Topics: Natalee Holloway

As a reminder, we will suspend posting on the Natalee Holloway update over the New Years' holidays. Posting will resume on Tuesday 3 January 2006. We wish all of our readers a Happy New Years!

Given the latest media reports on the re-questioning of the suspects in Aruba, lets take a look at the information from Aruba Truth:

The questioning of the Kalpoes and Joran is still expected. But, the timing is not certain. Attorneys for the Kalpoes are expected to fight the re-questioning, and Joran's attorney is also opposed. However, investigators still believe that they have reason to bring them in to review the timeline that is still the central focus of the case.
Investigators are carefully preparing details from the questioning of others on Aruba. And they hope to have a meticulously prepared interrogation for Joran and the Kalpoes. But, they are not prepared to be rushed by an artificial timeline. It was originally thought this might occur over the holiday period.

But while the timing has been altered by the changing dynamics of the case, there is no question the investigation is moving forward. On Rita Cosby, Thursday, special adviser, Steve Cohen, explained the timing issue, but said, "make no mistake, this investigation continues, and the delay in the interviews does not signify a change in direction in the case."
Despite the explanatory nature of the Aruban clarification on the status of the case, we encourage those individuals with a sincere concern for why this re-questioning of the subjects is taking so long to contact the corresponding agency for enlightenment:

FBI Birmingham
1000 18th Street North
Birmingham, Alabama 35203
birmingham.fbi.gov
(205) 326-6166

Special Agent in Charge (SAC) is Carmen S. Adams. The Assistant Special Agent in Charge is Charles E. Regan.

Birmingham Division
Serving Jefferson, Shelby & Walker Counties
Federal Bureau of Investigation
2121 8th Avenue North - Suite 1400
Birmingham, AL 35203
Phone: (205) 326-6166
Federal Bureau of Investigation - Birmingham Field Office

Note that we are not compelled to engage in international cordiality. We will just tell it like it is. Please note that Natalee Holloway's picture appears on the Birmingham FBI's website:

Birmingham - FBI's Most Wanted

Also note that the FBI lists other young girls missing, as well. Natalee Holloway is the most recent addition to the Birmingham missing persons' section. One girl has been missing for 12 years!

There are 48 other girls on the FBI's national missing persons list, including Amy Bradley. Four of the girls went missing in 2005. One girl was listed as missing in December 2005. Natalee Holloway is not listed amongst this group of 48 missing girls.

Federal Bureau of Investigation's Kidnappings and Missing Persons - Kidnapping and Missing Persons Investigations

As long as the cable news networks refuse to entrain the Birmingham FBI Office into their constant barrage of intimidation against the Aruban law enforcement, I believe that publicizing the parties who may be responsible for the delays in this investigation is warranted.

I am sure that the special agents are quivering with anticipation to explain their side of the story and provide a true update of their efforts, if any, with respect to Natalee Holloway.

In the news media, the Amigoe Newspaper reports that a judge has attached the salary of Glenbert Croes (a political favorite of Jossy Mansur) for unauthorized disbursements during his tenure for the Aruban government.

This action involved a position, supported by Croes, that Aruba should take charge of its own airspace in the interest of tourism.

Amigoe.com

For the first time, we hear that the tourism figures are in doubt as to whether or not they are being effected by the negative publicity emanating from disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

The Central Bank and the Aruba Airport Authority (AAA) have reported alarming figures with respect to tourism. Cruise passengers dropped by 40% in October 2005; whereas, hotel occupancy was reported as 78%. The AAA has reported fewer passengers on incoming airlines. Only the AAA has deemed the reason being the negative publicity from the Natalee Holloway case. Regardless of the reason, the October 2005 figures are cause for concern from the Aruba Tourism Authority (ATA).

On another economic related matter, McDonalds has been order out of their 20-year establishment on Boulevard NV on Aruba before 1 January 2006 in favor of a new tenant, Gandleman Jewelers.

On to the cable folks, Jane Mithcell interviewed Robin Holloway, Antonio Carlo (Joran van der Sloot's attorney), Ron Richards ( US attorney) and Vito Colucci (Private Investigator).

Robin Holloway discussed a recent telephone conversation with Karin Janssen in which Karin denied any intention to bring the suspects in for questioning, other than on a voluntary basis. Robin flatly stated that re-questioning of the suspects will not happen. Robin felt her conversation with Karin Janssen was good and informative. Her comments contradicted those of Beth Twitty's experiences with Karin Janssen.

Jane next brought on Antonia Carlo, Joran's attorney. Antonio confirmed that the past judge's decree clearly meant that Joran was released from questioning. He said Jran was doing fine and being himself. There exists no list of questions allegedly provided by the prosecutor. All there exists is a letter that the attorney received yesterday inviting Joran to come in voluntarily for questioning. Attorney Carlo stated that he had not acted on the letter of invitation.

Jane then referred to a panel of Ron Richards, a US attorney, and private investigator Vito Colucci. Ron Richards felt the case was empty, because the judge released the suspects with prejudice. He feels that without new evidence, the suspects cannot be re-questioned. Ron feels Joran's attorney is advising him correctly. Due process has unfolded, and Joran has no other obligations to the investigation. Ron states the investigation is going nowhere.

Vito Colucci feels the investigations is a horrible experience for the family. He questions why the police have not re-arrested Joran for having sex with Natalee while she was coming and going out of consciousness. He senses that there has to be something terribly wrong with that statement for the police to ignore it. Given what he has learned of the case, it is going nowhere.

With respect to this evening's editorial, no mention, whatsoever, was made about the FBI's investigation of the Kingdom of Mountain Brook.

Greta of Fox News interviewed Julia Renfro and Mark Furhman.

Julia mentioned some report of a confession by Joran; however, Greta countered with direct statements from the reporter in question that Joran never confessed to anything. Julia feels that new questions have been created by the new investigative review. Next, Julia talks about the voluntary nature of the re-questioning of the suspects.

Mark Furhman goes through his belief on the interconnectedness of the police and investigators with the suspects. He feels Natalee is in the ground and not in the water. He laments that search warrants were not issued for the home of Paulus van der Sloot.

If we entertain Mark's "in the ground" ideas and psychic Allison Dubois' revelations about Natalee being buried in an area where her body would decompose quickly, then we have the reserved area at the landfill. Here, I am not referring to the area of the landfill where Texas EquuSearch looked, but the area sealed off in the landfill. That area roped off, because it has been filled, so to speak. No one checked that area.

Greta holds her council of Jayne Weintraub, Bernie Grimm and Ted Williams. Jayne disputes Mark Furhman's search warrant idea as without merit, because they had no probably cause. She would be honest with everyone about the case and tell everyone that it has gone cold. Re-questioning is a bad idea, with or without a court order. The suspects do not have to talk. The police need evidence.

Bernie Grimm agrees with Jayne Weintraub. However, he feels Beth Twitty unwavering resolve will get answers, sooner or later. He doubts even with answers that anyone will be prosecuted.

Ted Williams feels even more discouraged about the success of the case. Ted brings up the fact that Dr. Phil has never provided his "Skeeter" tape, as he promised. He agrees with Jayne Weintraub. Case is cold.
Enjoy the New Years holidays! Aloha,

Posted for HarryTho

Posted by Richard at December 30, 2005 8:35 PM

To All:

Robin Holloway reports that Karin Janssen stated that the suspects could not be re-interrogated, because the judge released them with prejudice. The term "prejudice" in legal language means that the defendant cannot be brought in for questioning in the future (or charge with a similar charge in the future).

Joran van der Sloot's attorney, Antonio Carlo has confirmed this situation in the case. Antonio mentioned that yesterday he received an invitation from the prosecutor for Joran to come in, voluntarily, for questioning. He stated that he has not acted on the letter.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 30, 2005 10:06 PM

SNIP: Bernie Grimm agrees with Jayne Weintraub. However, he feels Beth Twitty unwavering resolve will get answers, sooner or later. He doubts even with answers that anyone will be prosecuted.


IMO, Beth's "unwavering resolve" is focused on promoting Beth, not finding Natalee.

Posted by: Max at December 30, 2005 11:20 PM

Beths "unwavering" results..are just how much donation money she can collect, before the media goes away. Now she has re-invented herself(once again), to go on the lecturing circuit to high schools. I am wondering when the book/movie deal will be announced? How about the TwittyMediaInc announcement of a Memorial for Natalee? Unless of course Beth suspects a memorial for a LIVING daughter, would be proven to be a bit tacky?

Posted by: Donna at December 31, 2005 12:00 AM

SNIP: Beths "unwavering" results..are just how much donation money she can collect, before the media goes away.


I can't argue with that.

Posted by: Max at December 31, 2005 12:54 AM

Quote from ArubaTruth.com:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Our wish is that the case yields results. We hope that all questions about Natalee’s last night in Aruba can be solved. And that the family can find closure and be allowed to grieve outside of the harsh light of media coverage."

ArubaTruth
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

YOU MUST BE KIDDING!!! Beth "grieve outside of the harsh light of media coverage"?!?!?!?

Beth, my friend, is long done with "the grieving" and has found a new call in life (you might even call her a "call girl") as an aspiring "starlett" appearing in her own play!

She's no longer on TV "grieving" her daughter! And as concerns the "harsh light of media coverage," she loves it!!!

Beth is the one that has dragged her daughter's image, reputation, and memory through the gutter of the scandalmongers, and made of her daughter's indiscretions the butt of sexual jokes, and of her private parts and underwear a province of common knowledge, all because of her feverish, continuous efforts to expose Natalee to the savage glare of the "harsh light of media coverage" in order to stay in its beloved "limelight!"

Have you seen the distraught mothers of other missing young ladies, even those that have appeared on TV, behave in a similar manner?!?! No, only Beth my friend!!!

Only Beth has made of her daughters possible death a mockery; the fodder to feed the ravenous appetite for "morbosity," "depravity," and "conflict" of television audiences worldwide; a "TV Reality Show" so much like those in vogue today, with cameras following her all through the island "hawking" her sappy "Prayer Cards for Natalee" as if she was running for Mayor of Oranjestad, or selling vacuum cleaners door to door, and irrupting upon the Van Der Sloots, or at the Internet Cafe by "chance" to engage in her "scripted" dramatics in front of the ubiquitous cameras; and an insidious, third rate "Soap Opera Melodrama!"

Only Beth has "grieved" for her daughter while cruising the blue waters of Aruba in her new swimwear on the Yacht of a famous TV Pundit demagogue, Geraldo, and behaved like some once notable porn starlet, now saggy and wrinkled, trying to recapture the notoriety of her "heyday" by doing "unseemly" publicity stunts, and "impromptu" photo Ops in co-hoots with her media buddies, instead of digging with her bare hands in the landfill for the daughter, "she so vehemently loves in front of the cameras!"

And now, she plans to make of this farce a career, and do a "Whirlwind Tour" as if she was some "Punk Rock Star on tour," of our High Schools, to "Lecture" students and parents on what?!?! About the "dangers" of sending your brainless teenage daughter "unsupervised" on a “bacchanalia” on some foreign exotic location, brimming with booze, drugs, and wild sex?!?! I would have thought any parent with common sense would know better!!! But then, Natalee did have some one hundred twenty other companions! So what can I say!!!

I am sure that Beth is revamping her image now, and preparing to continue her nightly TV appearances, as some sort of "expert" consulting on "Missing Person cases," drawing "honorariums" as a "Public Speaker" (that is, if audiences can endure her "inflected," "Gone With the Wind," "Southern" drawl, and her eloquence of "well...you know...I don't know about that...you know...uhhhh....it's not relevant..."), and writing books about "How to Rear your Teenagers" a la Dr. Spock (though with all the time she is devoting to staying in the "limelight," crisscrossing the Country in "Private Jets," and "Limousines" to do TV appearances, and hobnobbing with Celebrities, Pundits, and Talking Heads, she has hardly been a mother to her younger son Mat, though he did get a Tundra out of it for compensation, and as for Natalee, fate speaks for itself!), and selling interactive DVDs with John Walsh to teach teenage “Girls Gone Wild” to “Beware of J2K” (since, you know, they are still lurking down there in Aruba, and its not safe. We must boycott!), calling people to “boycott” Aruba, in favor of such other “safe” locations like “Muslim riot torn France,”
doing “Fund Raisers,” and continuing to bask in the “harsh light of media coverage” for which her narcissistic, addicted self so yearns, and.... Natalee what......?!?!?! Who’s Natalee?!?!?!

It is abhorrent!!!

Althor

Posted by: Althor at December 31, 2005 2:25 AM

To All:

I admit that this blog has not been kind to Beth Twitty, but I feel her embarking upon a campaign to educate parents and teenagers as to the dangers or wild partying so early in life can be beneficial. She has the passion, and I feel she will be a good spokesperson for such a cause.

I wish her good fortune in whatever endeavors that she undertakes.

May a warm tropical breeze embrace her,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 31, 2005 2:41 AM

Has anyone seen the cover of The National Enquirer that is sitting in stands at this moment? I was in line at Safeway on my way home today and read:

Natalee is pregnant ... shocking confession in letter. Aruba cops are testing new dna evidence.

I didn't pick the rag up to read the article of course, this is simply what I read on the front page.

Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 31, 2005 3:15 AM

Jim,

I think I saw such an NE cover for a few days alreday, though not sure, since one I saw stated "WAS pregnant".

Posted by: George at December 31, 2005 4:18 AM

YOU MUST BE KIDDING!!! Beth "grieve outside of the harsh light of media coverage"?!?!?!?

Beth, my friend, is long done with "the grieving" and has found a new call in life (you might even call her a "call girl") as an aspiring "starlett" appearing in her own play!

Posted by: Althor at December 31, 2005 02:25 AM


Althor, it seems rather obvious that you detest Beth Twitty. I've read some of your posts here and not once have I ever seen you show any sort of understanding about the woman and what she is and has been going through. I don't agree either with some of the things Beth Twitty has been doing with her life right now .. But I disagree for a different reason than you. Through personal experience Althor, I firmly believe Beth Twitty should give up her road life, go home, go back to work and hope that some real evidence appears in this case to help solve her daughter's
disappearance. You, on the other hand, have decided to take up a seriously personal vendetta against this woman when you obviously know nothing about her experience in the last 6 months. Your posts are cold and heartless and it's very obvious that you've never lost anyone dear to you. It's fairly simple for me to see that you sit with your dictionary and thesaurus on your lap when you post something, and you obviously seem to do this for one reason: A selfish wish for self fulfillment, hoping to see positive results with replies from other posters, to satisfy your needs.

Althor, I'm going to make this as short and sweet as possible, just for you. I lost my wife to breast cancer 7 years ago and the process lasted much too long. Shortly thereafter I started drinking. The drinking got worse. It got to the point where I couldn't stay at home at night anymore. My kids at the time were 18 and 16 and were able to stay home alone. I started leaving notes to my kids that I wouldn't be home when they woke up.

I hated being home so much that I would drive to my office (I'm self employed) with a bottle of vodka between my legs. I tried to catch up on anything I could, but all I ended up doing was to destroy phones, invoices, expensive oil equipment, sensitive computer hardware and myself. My favorite tool at my shop was a sledgehammer. I used to throw it anywhere and everywhere. I slept at my plant about 75% of the time after my wife died. Believe it or not, I used to call this endeavour of mine "my new hobby". My kids didn't know who I was anymore. I wasn't there for them. I was too angry to confront anything that had the word "reality" involved, including my business.

My little hobby ended about 4 months after my wife died. At that time, I had two forklifts. A small Toyota 4 ft and a huge Hyster 14 ft. On this particular night I was drunk as usual, and I slid the forks of the Hyster to the middle of the frame. I opened the back garage door to the yard and pushed the Toyota out, and for over an hour proceeded to destroy it with the Hyster. A police car pulled up from the alley into the yard, one of them pulled a gun and pointed it at me, told me to put my hands on my head and step down from the fork lift. I did so. I knew who called the police, a 24/5 extrusion outfit 2 numbers down the road, and I'm glad they did. After showing credentials from my office, I told them to drive me to the hospital. I told them I needed help. They told me I couldn't be charged with anything as it was my property, to close up and call a cab, while they waited. I told them I was afraid of what else I may do if I called a cab and begged them to take me to the hospital. They finally agreed.

I ended up seeing two psychologists, twice a week, Tuesdays and Thursdays, for over 6 months until I was finally able to face my reality and cope with life again. I almost lost my business and worst of all, my two kids .. never mind.

You seem to think life is a joke Althor. It isn't. You seem to think that Beth Twitty's life is a joke. It isn't. You claim in this post I'm responding to that Beth finished grieving a long time ago. I'll let you in on a little secret junior. Beth hasn't even started grieving yet. And I'll tell you why.

There is a clinical term called replacement, that certain people, depending on their chemical makeup and personality take on under extreme duress due to a personal loss. Some people take it. Some people don't. I did. It was unfortunate but it happenned. It's long over. Beth has chosen replacement as well. Unlike you junior, I have tenure to make this statement. Beth is as angry as I was, and she too is avoiding the worst scenario of her life ... going home and rebuilding. She's doing whatever she can to come to terms with her life right now. This is all part of a process for some people. We all heal if we choose to. In situations such as these, if we elect to run, the more difficult it becomes to sit down and face your life. This is the only reason I comment on Beth's behaviour right now. The sooner she does it, the better. What's your pathetic excuse Althor? I learned more about myself in 6 months of therapy than in my whole life for one reason: I was able to admit to someone else what I was afraid to tell myself.

Life will get tough for you one day Althor, but until it does, I really wish you would abstain from making these totally cruel and emotionless assessments of Beth Twitty. From what I've seen in your posts so far, you have no reason to, other than for your young, inexperienced, self fulfillment.

Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 31, 2005 5:01 AM

http://ceetveerefugees.11.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=1139 : 'I gave ALE enough information (much more than I have revealed here) to force an extradition (added* at least by American standards*) of certain people who have the answers to the questions we are all asking. Until they are willing to take an unpopular action I really don't feel there is much more any of us can do.

They are, IMHO pussy footing around, attempting to do things the NICE way, when that simply is not going to work. I direct you to Marie's latest missive "SEALED LIPS" and if that doesn't tell you something I don't know what else will.

Plain and simple it is time for ALE to get an American liason, and to start doing the hard thing instead of worrying what the media is going to say.
...
Until ALE does something with the information they have this case is stalled.

Extradition treaties go both ways, we turn over suspects, they turn over suspects. YES the kids are apt to try to fight it, but won't the media have a field day asking the question WHY? Finally, at that point the microscope would be aimed in the right direction. FINALLY. Nothing else appears to be working.

Three of the girls flat out lied and they are using their clan to cover it up, spread misinformation and keep their dirty little secret".

Posted by: George at December 31, 2005 6:10 AM

Jim Hanson, while I'm in no way making excuses for Althor (he wouldn't want me to nor does he need them) I do see where you are coming from. I'm so sorry for your past loss and the difficulty you had in dealing with it. I'm glad to learn you did come to terms and let the grieving process happen. I'm in the middle of grieving for the loss of someone very close to me. I know how hard it is. I also believe, judging from what I've read, seen on TV, and heard, that Beth Twitty is probably using replacement to get by right now. Problem is, the way she has lied, manipulated people and the media, and displayed an uncommon sense of ugliness and hatred for Aruba (after the people tried their best to help her in any way they could) has made it very hard to feel sorry for her. In the beginning, I was in her corner, but that has changed. She is responsible for changing my point of view. While she still does have a missing daughter (and I'm sorry for that) she is not someone I can feel sympathy for. I hope her lying and her use of rediculous amounts of money contributed to her cause will catch up with her. There's no excuse for that kind of behavior.

Posted by: betsy at December 31, 2005 9:10 AM

It's pretty clear that most of the time all of us are getting a type of involve when we listen or watch a show on t.v. Greta is nothing else then a showwoman that needs to maintain a good rating at her channel. I respect the freedom of press, however how far can we go with such a freedom. Targeting someone or a particular issue just to make sure that she can get some attention is not freedom of press or speech. I call it "the abusive part of being in the media". Again I can read the same names over and over again. Mark Furhman, a former L.A. detective that didn't have the potential to solve the O.J. Simpson case, reaso why O.J. is free today. a frustrated, burned out racist that never did visit any Dutch Kingdom territory in order to teach himself that over here we do not fabricate evidences such as gloves and bloodsamples just like he did in the O.J. case so the people of L.A. could lost the case and let O.J. walks away. In the Dutch Kingdom we don't give such type of people that attention. We give attention to the evidences of the case. Joran is on the island for more then one week. Nobody ever call him in for a re-intervieuw. In opposite, even the Judges, Public Prosecuters and members of the investigation team is wondering who came up with that stupidity of arresting the three boys. I live in Aruba, and we do have the good contact with the local authorities on the island. Last night a spoke with some of them, and the only thing they could have told me is that the circus is going on the US. Beth is back on t.v. Doing what? Creating attention because she is ready for her next trip or journey to look out for donations. If Beth wants to solve the case, she can come to Aruba and show us what exactly she wants to do. But she can't do that. We have many things to ask her, there are many issues that she has to explain. Regarding Jossie Mansur and his "toy reporter" Giovanny Leen, I have to say that none of them does have any credibility on the island. A musician that works part time in the Diario. He is not a full time reporter. Jossie is just a business man that wants his visa to be put back together in order to enter the US freely. Right now he is in Miami under the exucuses of medical treatment. Yeeee.....what a man! Folks today is the last day of the year. For all what we went thru with this case, We still believe that all americans deserves a good life, including Beth and Jug. So on behalve of all the 100.000 plus Arubans I wish you all the best for the year 2006. And that all of you can dedicate some time to your children and your family. Don't be misleaded by emotional t.v. programs that do not even know who you are but is just using your time for their ratings.

Regards

Posted by: Albert at December 31, 2005 10:18 AM

having fallen behind in watching the cable news coverage ( thank god ) i have 2 questions......

1- have their been any new developments in the alleged natalee letter? have the cable shows even mentioned it?

2- last night i found greta's mention of the skeeters tapes interesting.......obviously not a comfortable topic for her. do the the cable shows still veiw these tapes as legitimate or are they sweeping them under the rug as greta did last night?

imho- the constant airing of these tapes without context & without confirmation is perhaps the biggest disgrace in american journalisim i have ever seen ( let alone the fact that they were aired weeks before they were given to a law enforcement agency ). the shows that sired them owe a major apology..........& people should lose their jobs over this

thanks

Posted by: chip at December 31, 2005 11:08 AM

Dear Chip,

While I am not in position to answer your questions (not a TV-user), I would like to note that [presumble] unedited version of notorious tapes is now available at http://scrux.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?t=79 .

Posted by: George at December 31, 2005 11:35 AM

Posted by: George at December 31, 2005 12:42 PM

george:
thank you for the link....it will be interesting to read the transcripts. after reading the joran transcript & watchig the feeding frenzy on the skeeters tapes.....i hope the media will be held accountable for their actions

harry: thank you for your continued reporting
hopefully we will find that the letters are real & natalee is alive....& to you & your readers.....hope everyone has a great 2006!!

Posted by: chip at December 31, 2005 1:26 PM

To All:

I admit that this blog has not been kind to Beth Twitty, but I feel her embarking upon a campaign to educate parents and teenagers as to the dangers or wild partying so early in life can be beneficial. She has the passion, and I feel she will be a good spokesperson for such a cause.

I wish her good fortune in whatever endeavors that she undertakes.

May a warm tropical breeze embrace her,

Harry


My reply:
Harry...MY job as parent is to educate MY own children, in the hazzards of drinking. Its not Beth Twittys job to come in and educate my child about "responsible" drinking and ONLY if you already have a buddy system in place. Sorry...that is advocating them TO drink. Besides that, Natalee WAS already told to stay with her group, not to go off on her own. What good did that do for HER?

As a mother who have had children involved for years in the D.A.R.E. program, and a member of M.A.D.D., I do not want someone like Beth Twitty, who for the ONLY reason she is doing this, is to continue to MAKE money off the death of her child and a new career for herself, coming in OUR high schools, and teaching our impressionable young teens, that it is OK to drink, as long as you are doing it responsibly, or have a buddy system in place.

Her honoring her daughter, would be going home, and being with her OWN son, and family, and working on getting back to some type of new "normalcy".

Posted by: Donna at December 31, 2005 1:44 PM

Happy New Year to everyone!!

Well I have been watching the ratings for Greta, through tvnewswer.com....everytime her ratings come back with under 1.1 million, she brings the story of Natalee back on her program.

Then they shoot up to 1.5. She will have the story on for a few shows, and when she doesn't. Her ratings will slide right back under the 1.1 mil range.

So you tell me that her doing this show, isn't to "help" the family, but "help" her show get ratings.

Posted by: Donna at December 31, 2005 1:50 PM

I have wasted enough of my time on this travesty!
Fox will apparently always give Beth time to promote her neverending "Soap Opera Melodrama!"

Beth wins so long as suckers like me follow everything the bitch says or does, so I'm quitting!

I can hear the cheers at the Beth/Marcia boiler rooms, but this fracas has to end, and I who have staunchly denounced it from the onset, will be the first, again, to put it were it belongs: oblivion!!!

Beth, you, your daughter, and all of your theatrics belong in the garbage can!!! America, keep enjoying the garbage!!!

Althor

Posted by: Althor at December 31, 2005 1:54 PM

To All:

If the Dutch court released the suspects with prejudice in September 2005, where have all the American lawyers been the last three months? Greta of Fox, Joe Scarborough of MSNBC and Nancy Grace of CNN were all lawyers. Nancy was a prosecutor. For that matter, John Q. Kelly is an attorney, with recent experience in court, that flew to Aruba to familiarize himself with the case and the prosecution. Are all these lawyers telling the American public that they did know the suspects were released with prejudice? Apparently, they would like us to believe that they did not know.

I encourage our readers to review our past editorial on Culpable Inefficiency, because it applies here.

All these lawyers knew, or should have known, that the three suspects could not be questioned again. Yet, they continued to air the possibility of re-questioning. When John Kelly laments Beth Twitty's disappointment, I have to wonder what he has been advising her. He knows the suspects cannot be re-questioned.

Maybe this blog should run a course on court decrees 101 for the benefit of the cable news networks.

"With prejudice" means the suspects are acquitted on the charges brought before the court. The prosection needs entirely new evidence and must charge them anew. I can understand now why Police Chief Dompig was censured for saying: "I know these guys are guilty ..." (or words to that effect). He was in contempt of court.

"With prejudice" means the case against the suspects was over in September 2005!

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 31, 2005 2:17 PM

Harry:

So if they were released with prejudice and now there does not appear to be any new evidence (no interviews coming out of MB) coming out, do you think this is headed for their 'cold case' file?

Do you really think that writing to the FBI in Birmingham (or email) with questions regarding the MB students/parents will actually elicit any information to the news media? Normally, the FBI does not share much information on open cases, however, they do not have her listed as a missing person, only that they want information, so perhaps they would share.

I just wish some agency who has jurisdiction over fund raising and using the internet/mail to solicit donations would look into the accountability of whomever it is that is managing all of this money that has been donated. There are federal laws regarding fund raising and I can't believe that the Twittys are not to be held acocuntable for the use of this money. All rumors aside, they still need to be up front so there is no tinge of impropriety. IMHO

Posted by: MOEY at December 31, 2005 3:12 PM

Althor,

GET A GRIP!!

(also-- try using spell check)

GAD!!

Posted by: newbiebarbie at December 31, 2005 4:12 PM

Dear MOEY:

I believe all our grievances for the way the case was handled should be directed to SAC Carmen Adams. In my opinion, rather than uphold the function of the US Department of Justice, she laid down in favor of political interference and favoritism from Kingdom of Mountain Brook.

Actually, I would be interested in knowing if SAC Adams resides in the Kingdom of Mountain Brook.

We should recall that SAC Adams and the entire FBI Office in Birmingham, AL receives their operating stipend and salaries from our hard-earned tax dollars. We should demand accountability.

When Beth & Jug Twitty continually harped on the fact that the FBI thoroughly checked out the Kingdom of Mountain Brook students, they should have acknowleged that they had SAC Adams in their corner.

In my opinion, SAC Adams let all of America down.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 31, 2005 4:55 PM

Harry:

Thanks for your response. I hear what you are saying, but I have a hard time believing that a group of citizens in any city have that much clout over what an FBI investigation does or does not do; maybe I am too naieve, I don't know.

Either they did or did not take statements in the beginning and either thay are or are not going to take statements at this time. They should also be able to confirm whether or not the accountability for all this donated money is being done and/or all federal/state laws are being complied with. A lot of people ask these questions on the periphery, but they always seem to get shoved aside, missed, overlooked when someone mentions something else of seemingly more importance. I just wish for once that someone in authority would say yes or no this is what was or wasn't done and this is the information we wanted but this is all we got and then continue from there.

I just can't (or don't want to) believe that any community has that much clout over an organization as authoratative as the FBI.

I believe that every parent who looses a child deserves sympathy and support, but when the questions come up as in this case and the answers just don't seem to match up, someone needs to do something. I for one am going to write to the addresses you posted, don't know if anything will come of it, but if enough people write with their questions, perhaps something will.

I agree with the poster who stated that they didn't want Beth Twitty teaching their kids in high school about the ins/outs of her version of responsible drinking. I believe she should go to a class to learn about responsible parenting and then rethink her thesis of 'responsible teenage drinking!' What an oxymoron, IMHO.

Thanks again for all the issues to think about and research. Great site and a Happy New Year. We have snow, snow and more snow here. Moey

Posted by: MOEY at December 31, 2005 5:10 PM

Quote:
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also-- try using spell check)

GAD!!

Posted by: newbiebarbie at December 31, 2005 04:12 PM
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Please! Show where! You arse!!!

Althor

Posted by: Althor at December 31, 2005 5:24 PM

Tch, tch Althor.

Posted by: S. Freud at December 31, 2005 7:56 PM

This comment is to both, 'Altor' and 'Jim Hanson'.
I do believe that Altor is right in some of his assesments of Beth even though he does get a little harsh. When Beth speaks on TV I feel like someone is grinding teeth or scraping a blackboard. (I don't know if Altor is male or female but I as a female sure have trouble with Beth.)

Jim, as far as you are concerned, I would suggest to write your own biography about your life and suffering, which somehow has no connection with the case. I could write a book about all the horrors I have experienced but it has nothing to do with Natalee Holloway or Beth, so stick to the issues.

Posted by: Inge Hanson at December 31, 2005 8:11 PM

Althor, I totally agree with you.

Harry--this dismissed with prejudice, wow. Thank you so very much for posting this.

Posted by: JennyM at December 31, 2005 9:29 PM

I take it that "released without conditions" is the same as dismissed with prejudiced?

Harry, could you please tell me if Mrs Holloway and JVdS's lawyer used the term dismiss with prejudice?

Thank you!

Posted by: JennyM at December 31, 2005 10:31 PM

To All & JennyM:

http://www.arubatruth.com/

"Dutch law will not allow a mandatory appearance unless there is new evidence or they are about to be charged."

Actually, all law applies with prejudice.

For JennyM, the phrase "dismissed with prejudice" was employed by Antonia Carlo, Joran van der Sloot's lawyer. Robin Holloway reported to Jane Mitchell of MSNBC News that the prosecutor, Karin Janssen, told her that the suspects could not be called in for re-questioned. I believe Robin reported the "dismissed with prejudice" phrase was expressed by Karin Janssen. Sorry, my mind is foggy tonight, and I cannot pinpoint that part of her report where the phrase was uttered.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 31, 2005 10:50 PM

How awful you people are. Do you have children? How would you feel if your daughter were raped, murdered and thrown away? How can you say such horrible things. I will never go to Aruba, nobody should, the government has covered this awful murder up. I have a beautiful daughter and I would just die if this had happened to me, how can you say such horrible things about this poor woman trying to find her daughter? You make me sick.

Posted by: sue at December 31, 2005 10:59 PM

I have found out, through legal friends the reason WHY the 3 appellate judges from Curaco, dismissed the case with "prejudice", and set the 3 young men free without restrictions, has to do with Karin Janssen, taking DNA sample from the 3 suspects, illegally. She did this w/o a court order, from a judge. She then TRIED going BEFORE a judge AFTER the fact, to get the order. This is why for awhile we were hearing that Karin Janssen was going to be fired. Just not taken OFF this case, but FIRED period. This is called prosecutorial misconduct, and she should either be sanctioned, or FIRED. If this happened in the USA, she would of been suspended or fired immediately, and brought up in front of the BAR Association, on charges of prosecutorial misconduct and either of had her license suspended, or revoked permanently.

Posted by: Donna at December 31, 2005 11:07 PM

To JennyM:

I had to research the Dutch legal phrase: "release without conditions," because the term "release" in American jurisprudence relates with contracts in which there exists general and specific releases.

A general release refers to all claims in existence or contemplated at time of execution. A specific release confines to specific claims.

Given these definitions, if the Dutch legal phrase "released without conditions" where to be transposed into American law, it would seem to equate nicely with our "dismissed with prejudice."

Attorney Antonio Carlo may have made this transposition for the American audience in order to press the significance of the Dutch Court's decision, or, as it appeared last evening, the words "dismissed with prejudice" were the ones actually employed in the judicial decree that released the suspects. I have not sighted the release document, so I cannot state what was written. But, "dismissed with prejudice" would leave no doubt in the outcome to any litigator.

Thank you for the question!

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 31, 2005 11:16 PM

Dear Donna:

Thank you for the post.

Under American legal procedure, the prosecutorial misconduct would fall under professional misconduct and be grounds for disbarment.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 31, 2005 11:23 PM

How awful you people are. Do you have children? How would you feel if your daughter were raped, murdered and thrown away? How can you say such horrible things. I will never go to Aruba, nobody should, the government has covered this awful murder up. I have a beautiful daughter and I would just die if this had happened to me, how can you say such horrible things about this poor woman trying to find her daughter? You make me sick.

Posted by: sue at December 31, 2005 10:59 PM

Sue?

Exactly where is Beth trying to "search" for Natalee? Philly? NYC? L.A., Georgia? Ohio? On her skiing vacation, with her son Matt, in Utah this past week?

She hasn't been TO the place her daughter went missing from, for 3 1/2 months, except for a 2 day trip to get Aruba on film for Paramount Studio's in November.

Other than that, EXACTLY what has Beth TRULY done to HELP find her daughter?


As a quote from Beth herself, she "buried her daughter in her heart" on June 10th. Since then, she has done nothing but make a mockery out of her daughter memory, by turning it into a MEDIA circus. Introducing us to the "crazies" of the world, Skeeters, Joe Manamma...etc.

Also, and those of you out there, who donated to this family, to help with SEARCHING FOR NATALEE.....isn't it nice to know that YOUR hard earn money is paying for a private suite at a UTAH ski resort, for Beth and Matt? Does that warm the cockles of your hearts? How about all these jet setting trips across the nation? Beth is sure seeing alot of our country.

So Sue, keep your outrage to yourself. This woman hasn't spent ONE penny donated on any type of SEARCH for her daughter. She has used those monies for her OWN. Flying all over the country, staying in HIGH end hotels, and enjoying her new lifestyle. Maybe YOU should be outraged at this mother, who finds time to live the jet set/HIGH life, while her daughters REMAINS could be laying somewhere on that Island of ARUBA. Or alive somewhere, god only knows..going through god only knows.

Eventually this money will dry up. And then Beth is going to have to come to some HARSH realities. Her second career she is planning on, the 25 thousand speaking engagements she thinks she is going to cash in on, will NOT pan out. Book royalities, and movie royalties, won't last, with the apparent lifestyle Beth has now been accustomed to. At some point Beth is going to have to live with the fact that her daughter is gone, and no amount of money, shopping, traveling, will replace THAT fact!

Posted by: Donna at December 31, 2005 11:28 PM

To Jim:

First, I would like to extend my condolences to you for the loss of your wife. It is easy to see that you loved her dearly. Secondly, while I can't speak for Altor and say why he/she feels like they do, I can tell you why I agree with Altor.

In a nut shell; I have a real problem with people trying to make money off of their dead loved ones.

I've lost a couple of people dear to me and I can tell you for a fact that money was the last thing on my mind. My perception of Beth is that MONEY is the first thing on her mind and has been since the beginning of this case. I'm put off my her constant need to be in the limelight, and, the callous way she has treated all the people in Aruba who bend over backward to try and help her, but maybe all that can be explained away by the condition that you described. However, in my humble opinion there is no excuse for her constant money grubbing ways. Her greed has turned the sympathy I felt for her, in the beginning of this case, to outright disgust.

Posted by: Max at January 1, 2006 12:22 AM

SNIP: How awful you people are. Do you have children? How would you feel if your daughter were raped, murdered and thrown away?


Raped? Murdered? Thrown away? Do you have any proof of ANY of that? Didn't think so.

Posted by: Max at January 1, 2006 12:25 AM

SNIP: Eventually this money will dry up. And then Beth is going to have to come to some HARSH realities. Her second career she is planning on, the 25 thousand speaking engagements she thinks she is going to cash in on, will NOT pan out. Book royalities, and movie royalties, won't last, with the apparent lifestyle Beth has now been accustomed to. At some point Beth is going to have to live with the fact that her daughter is gone, and no amount of money, shopping, traveling, will replace THAT fact!

Posted by: Donna at December 31, 2005 11:28 PM

Great post, Donna.
However, as long as there are people like Sue in this world Beth will continue to ask for, and receive, enough blood money to get by.

Posted by: Max at January 1, 2006 12:31 AM

Max..

Their only "proof" that Natalee was raped, murdered and thrown away, IS because Beth said so. However, there is not ONE scintilla of evidence proving this.

Sue wishes to talk about outrage...well I am outraged.

I am outraged at a mother, who would callously tell the world about her daughters virginity, her private parts, etc. Not respecting her daughter in any way, shape or form. Beth only seems to be PROUD of Natalee's accomplishments, but can't answer ONE question on WHO Natalee truly was.

I am outraged that a so called respected show like the Dr Phil show, perpetrated a fraud against the american public, by putting on a manipulated tape, that caused the public to THINK that Joran, Deepak and Satish, had sex with Natalee that night. Where is the outrage for that? Where is our FBI? Why isn't this being investigated? Why hasn't charges been brought? After all its now been over a month that this news was released, the manipulation of a tape, shown on the airwaves! Where is the FCC, FBI? Where is the outrage from Fox News? MSNBC? Why aren't they calling, no DEMANDING, for an investigation, as was done with Dan RATHER and his memogate?

I am outraged at a mother, who sits on TV, claiming she had illegally taken documents out of a country, who was investigating her daughters dissapearance, and for MONTHS claiming she had those said documents, only then turn around months later, said SHE never had them...that someone READ them to her, and she had simply "taken notes". She perpetrated a fraud also, IMO. Giving the impression SHE had SIGNED documents (5-7 of them)in her hand PROVING that her daughter was a victim of rape. She even had someone from the audience on the Dr Phil show, read such a "document".

I am outraged at the fact, that this woman has gone on National TV, stating that she and Jug are a 2-income family, and aren't financially secure enough to search for her daughter, and THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of people from all over the world, sent in their hard earned money, some have even set up their payroll deduction for money to go into the Twitty Fund account, for the search of her daughter, then ONLY to find out that EVERYTHING was GIVEN to them on a SILVER platter in Aruba. Hotels, food, cars, airfare..everything! Jugs said he could PROVE to the world he PAID for a safer hotel suite for Beth because he was concerned for her safety, even stating he could show his OWN credit card bill, but NEVER did...and he whined because he had to fork over money for taxi rides! He was proven to be a LIAR! Equasearch worked off the 40 grand donated to them by Aruban businesses, all the while THOSE that were there with this group was given all the emenities they needed FOR free!Not to mention these guys were more interested in the "party" scene on the island, instead of doing SEARCHES. This included the P.I. T.J. Ward, and the guy with the two sticks, a string, and some batteries. And they have not spent ONE dime, not even a PENNY donated to that fund, to go to searches for Natalee. Also, finding out that Beth and Jugs nights were spent dining at the MOST expensive, elegant restaurants on the island (meals were FREE to them), and going to the casino's, attending concerts, and shopping in Jewelry stores!! ( A real grieving mother, eh? NOT!) And not one cent of that money was given to Natalee's BIOLOGICAL father, in his attempts to find out what happened to his daughter. The only person WILLINGLY to work with ALE, and who DID physical searching. NOT photo ops! Then instead of using that money that was DONATED for searches,she left the island after 2.5 months, since then she has gone on exciting vacations to NYC, for a shopping excursion, Philly (stayed in a FELON's Million dollar mansion), L.A., Ohio, Georgia..and spent a wonderful week in a private ski resort at Christmas, for her and her son Matt! And its been rumored received COLLAGEN injections in her lips, to make her look better in her TV interviews/photo ops! All this on the kindness and generosity of others!

I am outraged, that Beth and Jugs, have GIVEN the world the reasons why we are addressed as the "ugly Americans", and the way they have conducted themselves while in Aruba, and then on TV. I am outraged that Jugs, has such a temper to STRIKE a woman while she is holding her child, after ALL she tried to do to HELP this family, and to shout obscenities at her in front of her children...all because this woman printed TRUTH in her newspaper, and made Jugs out to be a liar,that he is.

I am outraged at the fact that I have given MY time to this circus, for months.....and have ENABLED a woman, who by MY own opinion, only cares about PRESTIGE, SOCIAL STANDING, MONEY, KEEPING the virginal reputation of her daughter, and now BEING in the limelight. Natalee be damned. This woman, lived vicariously through her daughter, when she was alive, now only uses HER disappearance, for HER own SELFISH reasons, and that is to keep herself as some sort of celebrity, by now going on the talking lecture circuit. Advising HIGH SCHOOL KIDS...how can you talk about something YOU have absolutely NO knowledge in? Why didn't she EDUCATE, her naive, sheltered, virgin, HIGH accomplishing, daughter of the same thing? Maybe IF Beth stopped trying to be her daughters "buddy" and BE her parent, Natalee would of listened MORE to her mother about staying with her group...and not going off on her own. However, it was MORE important to Beth to be one of the "gang" of friends of her daughter, then to BE a parent.

I am outraged at the fact, that in this day and age, if you have a missing child, that you become the "story", the INSTANT celebrity, with people fawning all over you, TV personalities vying for your time to interview you contantly and even spending a week with you, meeting other celebrities, politicians, people sending in donations by the millions, and it becomes the about the PARENTS, not the person WHO is missing. Reality TV at it's best. Parents are followed by the paparrazi, trying to take their pictures, people come up and ask for autographs, Communities holding fundraisers, and if your lucky your govenor and his/her spouse will have "love offering" bowls set up for you, at one of their "prayer vigils", you get in all the best magazines, People, Vanity Fair, etc. You also have the tabloids writing about you. In fact, chances are that YOUR picture will be right next to Paris Hilton! Heck you can also be considered on the the top fascinating persons of the YEAR, by Barbara Walters! And if your really lucky, you can become one of TIME'S persons of the year!

But in the meantime, the PERSON is still missing..and that person gets lost in all of this craziness.


I am making a New Years resolution. Until there is SUFFICIENT news, about NATALEE HOLLOWAY, I am all done, giving it another moment of my thoughts or time. The cable news program, who carries this story at all, ONLY to rehash the same propoganda, of the TwittyMediaInc. , will NOT get MY rating. Period.


Happy New Year to everyone!

Will see all of you, when Natalee decides to surface, either ALIVE (which I believe she is and is TOTALLY embarrassed at her MOTHERS actions) or found DEAD, because she couldn't even contemplate the thought of having to come home to this mother and that step-father, and decided to END it all, by committing suicide, by drowning herself in the ocean. And after seeing the likes of Jugs and Beth...who could blame her?

Posted by: Donna at January 1, 2006 1:36 AM

Thank you for the response, Harry.

Posted by: JennyM at January 1, 2006 1:43 AM

I have found out, through legal friends the reason WHY the 3 appellate judges from Curaco, dismissed the case with "prejudice", and set the 3 young men free without restrictions, has to do with Karin Janssen, taking DNA sample from the 3 suspects, illegally. She did this w/o a court order, from a judge. She then TRIED going BEFORE a judge AFTER the fact, to get the order. This is why for awhile we were hearing that Karin Janssen was going to be fired. Just not taken OFF this case, but FIRED period. This is called prosecutorial misconduct, and she should either be sanctioned, or FIRED. If this happened in the USA, she would of been suspended or fired immediately, and brought up in front of the BAR Association, on charges of prosecutorial misconduct and either of had her license suspended, or revoked permanently.

Posted by: Donna at December 31, 2005 11:07 PM


This may be a reason why some people may not have faith in the Aruban system. I know that if this happened in the US, some folks may lose faith in the system.

Posted by: NSP at January 1, 2006 11:11 AM

It's a good thing there are people in this world like me. Again....do any of you have children? Didn't think so. Oh, and do you have proof she wasn't raped, murdered and thrown away? Didn't think so. Beth is doing what she should do and what any mother would do. For any of you thinking she will "surface" think again. Your little Joran is a murderer.

Posted by: sue at January 1, 2006 11:40 AM

Donna, you really are an idiot. Do you think that all the people that went over to search for her body did it for free???All the equipment sent over, all the airfairs, hotel rooms, attorney's (I'm married to one, they aren't cheap)? Who do you think paid for all of that?? You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Those boys were the last to be with this teenager and she's gone, with lots of different lies. If this had happened to your daughter, what would you do, Donna?

Posted by: sue at January 1, 2006 12:53 PM

Beth is doing what she should do and what any mother would do.

Posted by: sue at January 1, 2006 11:40 AM


I disagree Sue. I "was" a mother before my only child was killed by a never-apprehended hit and run driver. And what Beth is doing is not what I would have done. In the very beginning, maybe yes. But when she became so fixated on the supposed guilt of J2K I began losing sympathy for her. I've never understood survivors who become so focused on particular suspects without proof irrefutable. I'd rather have an unsolved case than have the wrong person charged and thus let the real guilty party off the hook - knowing they could breath easily because no one was looking for them any longer. If they'd ever even gotten that close in my son's case, I'd certainly want to keep an open mind so the real perpetrator didn't get away with it. I'd probably go overboard in just the opposite direction to make sure that wasn't a possibility. I also disagree that it's proper to slander, libel, accuse, hurt and try to ruin the lives of others who may truly be innocent. Does Joran's mother deserve to be hurt any more than Beth? I don't think so. Over these past several months I've seen so many people excuse bad behavior on Beth's part to the loss of her daughter. Yes, it hurts like hell. But hurting others does nothing to assuage the pain. To the contrary, I found in the immediate time after that I became much more attuned to the fact that there's all kinds of grief in the world besides my own. I realized strangers on the street had no idea I'd just lost my only child so tragically and likewise I had no idea if maybe that waitress was slow because she just found out she had cancer or the driver who'd just cut in front of me was coming from the funeral home after picking out his mother's coffin. I became kinder and gentler. Beth appears to have become increasingly cruel. I'm not saying I don't understand how she could get to that point, I'm just saying it's not excusable behavior. And I have a great suspicion that those who continue to post that she deserves special treatment for behaving badly have never been there themselves. The world is full of people who have lost loved ones tragically. You'd probably be amazed how many of them cross your path daily. And think how miserable the world would be if they all acted like Beth. Bottom line. Remember the Golden Rule - do unto others.....

I also blame the MSM to some degree for making people in these situations come to believe that they themselves are "the victim" rather than merely the survivors of the true victim. A tiger can't change it's stripes. I have a feeling today's Beth is acting like she does not so much because of losing Natalee but because that was how yesterday's Beth would have acted.

Posted by dithers at January 1, 2006 01:31 PM

If you have a TypeKey identity, you can sign in to use it here.

Name:

Posted by: dithers at January 1, 2006 1:45 PM

Harry--

I understand what dismissed with prejudice is under US civil and criminal law.

I have asked today of lawyers who have practiced Dutch law and have gotten very conflicting reports as to if that is what could have happened in this case.

Any more on this subject?

Thank you!

Posted by: JennyM at January 1, 2006 3:07 PM

Dear JennyM:

Does it surprise you that American lawyers would have conflicting reports? They need to litigate in order to survive. Here is what you do: make a list of those lawyers who disagree with Antonio Carlo's "dismissed with prejudice," then turn that list into your legal review board. If a lawyer fails to comprehend what "dismissed with prejudice" means, he/she should be disbarred or forced to revisit law school ... even if it is for the first time.

Please don't waste my time with the opinions of American lawyers.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 1, 2006 3:36 PM

Althor: Have you ever had a child gone missing for 7 months?

Posted by: mchenry at January 1, 2006 3:53 PM

Life will get tough for you one day Althor, but until it does, I really wish you would abstain from making these totally cruel and emotionless assessments of Beth Twitty. From what I've seen in your posts so far, you have no reason to, other than for your young, inexperienced, self fulfillment.

Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 31, 2005 05:01 AM

Jim, I shouldn't lecture you on your self righteous opinion of Althor but I will anyway, you in your own way are condemning Althor just like you say he is condemning Beth. It sounds like you had a real hard time of it dealing with your wifes death. But, it seems your children had it much worse loosing both of you. Pity you didn't think about them, only your self. Just like Beth is doing. I can say this Jim, because I also lost someone I love to cancer, my husband of 36 years. We were high school sweethearts and we loved each until the day he died. But I had three sons that needed me desperately. And I was there for them. Pity you weren't there for your kids. I guess some people are just weaker than others and like you, Beth, is one of those week people. But I can't say she loved her daughter, because I don't know the woman and neither do you. She is not behaving like she loved her daughter so there are some of us out here who question her motivations. You call Althor young and inexperienced, well, I'm not young and inexperienced, and I have known many tough times, and lost many to death, my father, my sister, and my husband and a very dear friend, so don't lecture me. Let Althor have his say, you can have yours, and leave well enough alone. You have no right to call him cruel and emotionless, just because he doesn't fall for the, pity me Beth Twitty line." I don't fall for it either, and THAT'S MY RIGHT AS WELL AS ALTHORS. Just because someone doesn't fall apart and become a drunk or a self promoting TV crazed fiend like you or Beth, doesn't mean they don't have feeling. My husband was a very strong man, who lost his parents at the age of 16, but he managed to make it through school, marry and raise three fine sons. He hurt every day of his life because of his loss but he didn't let it keep from showing his love and concern for others. He died young but he left a ton of friends and a family that still worships him. Can you say that Jim?

Posted by: flightoffancy at January 1, 2006 4:08 PM

"If this happened in the USA, she would of been suspended or fired immediately, and brought up in front of the BAR Association, on charges of prosecutorial misconduct and either of had her license suspended, or revoked permanently."

Dear Donna,

This is wishful thinking. You may want to go to some links from http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Nancy+Grace%22+%22prosecutorial+misconduct%22 . You will find out that this woman was fired only after the Supreme Court of Georgia cited her for much more sinister prosecutorial misconduct third time, but her status at the Bar was still intact, and she got to promote her legal views on TV.

Posted by: George at January 1, 2006 4:21 PM

sue wrote at January 1, 2006 11:40 AM - Respond -

It's a good thing there are people in this world like me. Again....do any of you have children? Didn't think so. Oh, and do you have proof she wasn't raped, murdered and thrown away? Didn't think so. Beth is doing what she should do and what any mother would do. For any of you thinking she will "surface" think again. Your little Joran is a murderer.

Post: HarryTho 12/30 Natalee Holloway Commentary

I also disagree with you Sue. Do you have a personal interest in this case? It sure sounds like it. Perhaps, you are even Beth Twitty or a close relative? Or maybe one of the "me, me, me seven" which ever one you are, you are a hate filled woman who wants to demonize the suspects on Beth Twitty word alone. You don't seem to need evidence just her word that they are guilty of rape and murder, WITHOUT A SHRED OF EVIDENCE. Perhaps you are a prosecutor who thinks everyone is guilty until proven innocent? Whatever you are, I sincerely feel sorry for you. Better pray you are never judged by your own yard stick in this world. But it's a sure bet you will be judged by your own yard stick at the end of time. We all will.

Posted by: flightoffancy at January 1, 2006 4:23 PM

mchenry: Have you ever had a child unreasonable jailed for 3 months and "forever" harassed by media and their parrots?

Posted by: George at January 1, 2006 4:33 PM

Althor wrote at December 31, 2005 01:54 PM - Respond -

I have wasted enough of my time on this travesty!
Fox will apparently always give Beth time to promote her neverending "Soap Opera Melodrama!"

Beth wins so long as suckers like me follow everything the bitch says or does, so I'm quitting!

I can hear the cheers at the Beth/Marcia boiler rooms, but this fracas has to end, and I who have staunchly denounced it from the onset, will be the first, again, to put it were it belongs: oblivion!!!

Beth, you, your daughter, and all of your theatrics belong in the garbage


Please don't quit posting Althor. We need your input more now than ever. With the Sue's of the world, we need more Althors to balance this tripe.

Posted by: flightoffancy at January 1, 2006 4:45 PM

George:

Many American lawyers deserve to be disbarred as officers of the court for violating their oath upon being licensed. Of course, you can always quote disparities in justice, because those assigned to surveillance are often as at fault in their past conduct as those they oversee. Besides, most legal review boards consists of personnel more adept at playing the cello for the local symphony than any thing related to law. They attended law school merely to get their ticket punched. What they do is play the cello and get paid as attorneys.

It is unfair to quote a substandard and ineffective legal procedure in order to make your case. I.E., why don't we all eat dung, after all 1,000,000,000 flies cannot be wrong.

The American legal community has no effective surveillance mechanism, so charlatanism runs amok.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 1, 2006 4:47 PM

What exactly has Beth offered as her pathetic proof that these 3 are guilty of rape or murder well certainly there were those STATEMENTS remember those - that of course were never signed and probably came from Jossy's spies - but they never proved to be worth anything!! Then for the rape - well that proof came from the Skeeter tape and if anyone is reading Scrux, in a few days that whole tape and the transcript will be totally 100% proved bogus - already the snipits are so insightful especially as to another one of the low lifes that Beth has attaced herself to! Some times this all just makes me so angry - one of the biggest media travesties ever!!

Posted by: Jan at January 1, 2006 4:58 PM

Please don't waste my time with the opinions of American lawyers>>

Harry--perhaps I did not make myself clear. I said I had asked lawyers who practice(d) DUTCH LAW about whether or not "dismissing with no conditions" is the same as our "dismissed with prejudice--" Not if they know/understant what the term "dismiss with prejudice" means.

Obviously, all American lawyers (and I would daresay a huge number of laypeople) are aware of what dismiss with prejudice means in this country.

I went back and listened to the Rita Cosby show after reading your comments on 12/30. I HOPE that dismissing with no conditions means the same thing as "dismissed with prejudice." I just wanted to confirm this for myself, as this outcome is one I would welcome.

I watched it twice and neither Mrs Holloway nor JVdS's attorney use the term "dismiss with prejudice."

I asked you if you were aware of the Dutch Law equivalent to that and you explained how you had arrived at using the term dismissed with prejudice.

BTW, the lawyers with whom I have apparently wasted your time were my husband and uncle. My uncle has only practiced Dutch law, my husband is a practicing criminal def atty in the US.

I have yet to been able to check with my father who was a Dutch prosecutor for many years and who is a Fed prosecutor now.

Posted by: JennyM at January 1, 2006 5:37 PM

Dear Harry,

Maybe you should explain this to your visitors.

Aruban(Dutch) law about what time suspect(s) can be hold in custody for an investigation is simple:
1. There is a first maximum 90 days period what needs permission from a judge(court) who looks into the evidence. Ending, there is to be an official charge or very serious evidence for holding them any longer. A judge(court) will decide if this is an apposite request and if it is necessary in the interest for the investigation to hold them in custody. A bail- or negotiation system like in the US does not exist in Aruban(Dutch) law. One can not be a suspect for murdering the nextdoor neighbour and confess/charged in court for stealing a motorbike as a result of the negotiation because this is the only real evidence there is.
2. Suspects are realeased after 90 days if there are no strong evidence or other circumstances to hold them in custody, again according to the judge(court).
3. For a period of 2 years a case will be an active file. After this it is really a cold case and only if there is very serious new evidence it is reopened and everybody can be charged.

All this is about the same in the USA, I presume.

Posted by: letstalk at January 1, 2006 6:27 PM

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Please don't quit posting Althor. We need your input more now than ever. With the Sue's of the world, we need more Althors to balance this tripe.

Flightoffancy
--------------------------------------------------------------

My Dear Friend, I have just been reprimanded at TUS for objecting to Dayo Gould's "free for all bashing of America!" Thank God he is banned here!

This preposterous "Media Circus" does not warrant our attention any more, and at this point so many of us are so frustrated, that we could care less about this Natalee beaked-nosed "Girl Gone Wild" and her frigging mother "Gone Wild" seeking fame and fortune, the bitch!

I will never surrender to her well orchestrated "machinations," and her media "manipulations," but there are so many far more important things to address that this media maven witch, and her interminable vengeful Banshee cries!!!

But unfortunately, all those that "hate" America, from Dayo Gould, to many others, are using Beth as an excuse to promote their "Hate America" campaigns on account of this one hateful, ugly woman, Beth, while all of us who have denounced this travesty from the onset (long before he did), and defended Aruba and her people from her "defamations" get ignored!!!

That is why I will keep postingt here, at your instance, and because this is a "Dayo Free Zone," from all his vileness!

As an American I am not proud of Beth Twitty and her behavior, nor of those inbred, trailer-park, "Good Ole' Boys," Southern Governors who have sided with her immorality, but I will not endure those who gratuitously take the ignorance, and banality of this "limelight" addicted woman as an excuse to bash America. After all, we are self sufficient (were we to burn coal instead of petrol), and we do not need to be vilified, and have our young men and women killed looking after a world that hates us as in Iraq! As Kerry's wife would have said in her beloved French: "Foutre!" In this case I would like to rerturn the remark to her, her husband, Harry Reid, and all their Democratic traitors!!!


Althor (and I am sorry to disappoint you, but I am a "male" and "chauvanist pig!" Tata!)

Posted by: Althor at January 1, 2006 7:07 PM

althor: No my sons have not been arrested. However, my sister-in-law went missing. It was unbearable to not know where she was or if she was alive. 8 days later she was found beaten to death. Her car broke down and accepted a ride from a stranger. He was the last person to see her alive. Her death was hard to deal with, but as least we got her body back and were able to give her a decent burial. It seems that it is really easy for some people ridicule others when
they have not walked in their shoes. I can't imagine how awful it would be to lose a child this was.

Posted by: mchenry at January 1, 2006 7:29 PM

No I have no personal interest in this case. I just happened upon this site and was shocked by what I read. I still can't believe what has been written. As to the person who lost their only child, I'm very sorry, but at least you had the body to bury. Like I said, I am a mother of two and I would be doing the same thing to find my daughter. Whatever it takes.........if that makes me a bad person, so be it.

Posted by: sue at January 1, 2006 7:37 PM

Dear Sue you seem so indicative of the "Beth/Marcia Dream Team" PR campaign! How many IPs do you have?

McHenry, I, as a Father of six children, and the grandfather of five, and counting, can not possibly fathom your pain and your loss! May God have Mercy upon you, and if you believe in His promises, your loved ones will again one day rise from the dead! Our love, and sympathy are with you all!

What Beth has been doing, though, amounts to the "sacndalmongering" so condemened in the Scriptures Sue!

Are you on Beth Twitty's payroll? Or do you keep drinking that poisoned "Kool Aid" all on your own?!?!

Have respect for those that unlike you, have lost their loved ones, and not made of it a "Media Circus" and a farce, as Beth has!!! May God Rebuke her!!!!!!

Althor

Posted by: Althor at January 1, 2006 7:53 PM

Your coverage on Parman Capital was extremely well researched.

Should be a fascinating month or two ahead.

Posted by: Dayo Gould at January 1, 2006 7:58 PM

Are you still allowed to post here Dayo? Polluting with your hatred everything you touch?!?! I thought Harry said you and your very appropriately called "Useless Knowledge: was not to be permitted on this site again!

Althor

Posted by: Althor at January 1, 2006 8:08 PM

THEY SAID J2K LIED BUT WITHOUT ANY PROFF EXCEPT IN THE VERY FIRST WEEK WITH THE HOLIDAY INN STORY >> SINCE THEN I HAVE HEARD TONS OF LIES FROM THE TWITTY'S CAMP AND THE TAKING HEAD REPEAT THEM , KNOWING THEY ARE FALSE!!! WHY??? SUE: BETH'S A SICK PERSON>>>>> J S> SAID THEY ADMITTED TO SEX WITH HER ON TAPE ,HE IS LYING! THE LINE NO BODY NO CRIME >> WHO ADMITTED TO THAT??? THIS MAKE ME LOSE ALL REPECT FOR FOX AND THE OTHERS. AND I AM REPUBLICAN AMERICAN

Posted by: rib at January 1, 2006 8:39 PM

Oh my God, a born again christian...the sickest of all creatures. Now I know where all this hatred comes from. I don't drink, I don't know this family and I don't even know what an IP is. I do know I won't be visiting this site any longer. You go have another cocktail honey.

Posted by: sue at January 1, 2006 8:42 PM

SUE:A born again christian, THAT HAS JELLY SHOTS SUCK OFF HER ON TOP OF A BAR IS THE SICKEST!!

Posted by: rib at January 1, 2006 8:56 PM

Does Harry's article above mean that Joran never could be charged with anything related to the events of that evening? Despite any evidence that may come to light?

Posted by: iwabwu at January 1, 2006 9:05 PM

Iwabwu,

No, Joran MAY be charged with anything related to the events of that evening, IF any NEW evidence comes to light. But he may NOT be further hounded WITHOUT new evidence.

Posted by: George at January 1, 2006 9:33 PM

To All:

Clearly, we are all wasting our time here. In the USA, we have no statute of limitation on capital crimes. The two year limitation on cases in Aruba is novel to me, and I have explored that idea in past posts.

Obviously, for those who disagree with what I write or what I record from the cable news talk shows, I would encourage you to remain with those with whom you feel more sated. I have no time for you; especially, when you keep changing your phrases.

One last time, Joran and the Kalpoe brothers are free. If new, incriminating evidence becomes available, then Joran and the Kalpoe brothers can be re-questioned. Concerning the suspicions with which the cable news networks entertained us all summer, the interviews requisite for those suspicions have been suspended entirely.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 1, 2006 11:53 PM

Hi Harry,
Happy New Year to you and your hosts at hyscience.
Happy New Year to my fellow posters.

In reading the entire thread I would like to let you know that a poster on RWV posted maybe two or three weeks ago that the entire family had lost their credibility and that the only family member with any credibility whatsover was Robin Holloway.
The poster said that she is the only person who can speak for them if they wanted to remain in the media spotlight. When I saw that she was now on the cable news I remembered that poster. It is apparent that the family is reading RWV and taking the advice of random internet posters. I find that extremely interesting. I would imagine they are reading hyscience also.

I find it fascinating that noone from the "kingdom of Mountain Brook" has been questioned. I do not think the mother's behavior should be discussed. She is a grieving mother and she has a lot of slack with all of us. I agree with Harry. If she does become a speaker I think she will have an enormous impact and the kids will listen to her and I do wish he success. I also wish everyone would go back tot he most important question: Where the heck is Natalee?

Posted by: LittleBoPeep at January 1, 2006 11:54 PM

Little Bo Peep:

I have not read where the family has lost credibility ... well, officially.

What hapened to Linda Allison? She presented a solid and credible front for the family.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 2, 2006 12:05 AM

Donna, you really are an idiot. Do you think that all the people that went over to search for her body did it for free???All the equipment sent over, all the airfairs, hotel rooms, attorney's (I'm married to one, they aren't cheap)? Who do you think paid for all of that?? You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Those boys were the last to be with this teenager and she's gone, with lots of different lies. If this had happened to your daughter, what would you do, Donna?

Posted by: sue at January 1, 2006 12:53 PM

If all of these searches have been paid for by the 'fund,' why are the local business people stating that they comped a lot of lodging/food etc., to these groups and the family?

There are federal/state laws regarding fund raising and how the funds can be used and there needs to be accountability. My guess is that the IRS is looking very closely at all this fund raising activity, as well as the State of Alabama. Once someone gets on the IRS radar, its pretty hard to hide things. IMHO

Posted by: MOEY at January 2, 2006 12:39 AM

Harry:

Do you really think much is going to happen in the next month? Investigation move to MB or still be stonewalled? Thanks.

Posted by: MOEY at January 2, 2006 12:40 AM

Hi Harry,
I had wondered the same, what did happen to Linda Allison?
Am I mistaken or is Linda Mrs. Twitty's sister. Maybe she does not want to get in her sister's way.
After all, she appears to be doing a fine job of keeping the story in the media spotlight. I assume the credit for this rests firmly on the shoulders of Marcia Twitty.
I have been away from both the television and the computer so all these developments are intersting news for me as I had not heard them until I read your post. So, thank you so much for all your posts, they are really helpful.

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at January 2, 2006 12:50 AM

Salut Jim,
IMO you suffered with your wife, Believe is not the same with the Twitty/Holloways, they are taking advantage of the people. I do not think Beth is replacing or grieving Natalee
I cannot, put Beth in your place or compared with you. I never heard you called for a boycott to the hospital, or say that the doctors or institutions were not helping you and your family or not good. Maybe YOU put your forces to fight with the side effects of the disease and help your wife and the medical staff. THEREFORE, IT IS NOT THE SAME.
Twitty/Holloways have been blaming every single body in Aruba, no ONE is good according to their desires, they do not have any respect for their Natalee if she is alive I wonder who she feels? assuming that the mother publicly announced that Natalee was virgin, honored, clever, intelligent, etc. .Now is a joke. Sad.
Can you imagine, if she is alive the way she feels???
Now, they had been collecting funds, TV show, lies here and there. Seems this is a business for them.
This is not replacement; this is anger with herself, because she lost the control of somebody that she could manipulate.
Beth did not convinced, the authorities the way she wanted. This is frustrating for them. I believe is not grieving or replacing. Beth and Dave are frustrated.
Anyways, Joran and the Kalpoes they seem they will be re-interrogated if they want, Now I hope that the ATA will start counting because I expect to hear about a lawsuit against Beth, I do not know where the 50 millions or + will end.
So, I see the way Althor describes Beth Twitty, is the image that she had give us.
I want to wish the best for 2006 to everybody.
antoinette

Posted by: antoinette at January 2, 2006 1:07 AM

Little Bo Peep,

Linda is Dave's sister; Beth's brother is Paul Reynolds who, as reported at RWV, is soon to marry PR-contractor for ATA Carla Caccavale.

Posted by: George at January 2, 2006 2:25 AM

For all who are defending Beth Twitty, my thoughts to you are this: Grief only can be carried so far. I can sympathize with a grieving Mother or Father until they reach the point of becoming obnoxious, and greedy. Since when does grief and greed follow in the same footsteps. Beth Twitty has named her suspects, refused to entertain any other option, has gone to Aruba and DEMANDED, all things be done HER way. Refused to cooperate when her family is questioned. Has taken free comps from Aruba, and the good people of Aruba and now slaps them in the face by calling for a boycott which would hurt the very people who poured out their hearts and pocket books to her. That kind of grieving I cannot go along with. That is called vengence. There is no evidence to date that these boys did anything whatsoever to Natalee except for take her for a drive and Joran leaving her alone on the beach. What happened from there no one knows, but this vindictive woman wants the blood of not only the three boys but of Jorans father as well, all without any proof or evidence.

Beth Twitty has involved herself with Jossy Mansur who has brought forth false evidence and false witnesses, TJ Ward, who has brought forth his phony analyzing thing and is working on a book, Dr. Phil, and Skeeters and the now infamous fake tapes, and worse of all brought forth Joe Mammana who sends death threats constantly to people on the Island. That is vindictive not grief. She constantly lies on tv and forgets her lies, and vacations on the Natalee Holloway Trust Fund, and buys her son an expensive truck for his birthday and jet sets all around the country appearing on every tv show she can get her face on spreading her outrageous claims that she has absolutely no evidence to support. That is vindictive, not grief.

Now she wants to tour all schools and give advice to teenagers about personal responsibility when they are drinking. Her campaign should be against teenage drinking not how to go ahead and drink just make sure you have a buddy. That doesn't make sense.

Now there is the matter of this letter to be resolved, she doesn't mention that which leads me to think she doesn't want the letter to be valid as it will end her budding stardom. The whole Twitty/Holloway clan has people all over the internet, pushing for donations, and infiltrating every blog and message board to push their adgenda. Somewhere along the line having sympathy for this grieving Mom goes out the window with all her vindictive behavior. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and in my opinion Beth Twitty and the Holloway family have overstepped the line.

IF Natalee Holloway is no longer with us, the Twitty/Holloways are going to have to face it, and deal with it. They will not be the only people in the world to ever have lost a child and not have the body found. How many men in World War 2, have never been found and how many families have a tombstone in a cemetery minus a body. I am sure other wars as well I am just using that one as I have a cousin still missing from World War 2, never to be found. Families have to deal with this many times over. And you don't see any of them carrying on like the Twitty/Holloways are doing. I am sorry, but any sympathy I had for this family has been out the window as far as I am concerned due to the ugliness this family has displayed.

I can think of no defense in the world that can excuse this Twitty woman or her family for the ugliness they have displayed and the vengence they have not only taken upon themselves, but that they are pushing for other people to partake in as well. There is no way I can support such hateful tactic, and vigilantism tactics that this family is taking. And I most certainly cannot condone it in the name of grief, or excuse it in the name of grief.

Lastly, if Beth Twitty had any true friend at all, they would be getting her to a grief counselor or Psychiatrist, instead of letting her make a fool out of herself, and out of themselves as well. She is to be pitied, but not because of being a grieving Mom, but for her nasty vindictive bahavior. I would not want to have that kind of hate in my heart. And I would not want innocent people to be convicted of a crime that hasn't even been proven to be a crime yet, and I would not want to be a party to causing hardship on an entire Island of people who have done nothing but extend a hand of friendship and love to me. Beth Twitty is her own worse enemy, and what goes around will come around..I wouldn't want to be in her shoes, simply because I wouldn't want to be such a hateful vengeful person.

Posted by: therose at January 2, 2006 2:47 AM

Thank you George. Sometimes keeping everyone straight in all of this mess is confusing. At least for me it can be. So then, either having Linda Allison or Mrs. Holloway means that you are still getting someone close to Dave Holloway.

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at January 2, 2006 4:32 AM

therose: RIGHT ON!

Posted by: rib at January 2, 2006 6:09 AM

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------
I can think of no defense in the world that can excuse this Twitty woman or her family for the ugliness they have displayed and the vengence they have not only taken upon themselves, but that they are pushing for other people to partake in as well. There is no way I can support such hateful tactic, and vigilantism tactics that this family is taking. And I most certainly cannot condone it in the name of grief, or excuse it in the name of grief.

Little Bo Peep
-----------------------------------------------------------------

How right you are Little Bo Peep!

And the sad part is how this woman’s hateful behavior has given all those who hate America an excuse to come out of the woodwork, and point their fingers at her and those in her bandwagon, and use it as a pretext to engage in their “bash” America diatribes, with nothing to do with Natalee, Aruba, or the case!

I guess one more thing that we have to be thankful for from Beth Holloway Twitty!!!

Althor

Posted by: Althor at January 2, 2006 7:56 AM

Althor,

Those really hating America (e.g. Al-Qaeda) need no excuse, they make those up. But hardly Beth Twity the soap bubble would have potential to grow so huge anywhere outside the US.

Posted by: George at January 2, 2006 8:14 AM

George, you amaze me!

Having both posted at RWV, and TUS, you are going to tell me that posters there, whom I will not name, have not repeatedly used this Natalee Holloway fracas, and the inexcusable actions of Beth Twitty to justify their going off on one of their favorite "bash America" tirades that had nothiong to do with the case?!?!

Please! Don't insult my intelligence, no matter how much you may disagree with me!

Althor

Posted by: Althor at January 2, 2006 8:49 AM

top-journalists, top-attorneys and top-cops participated in the contest of the best feateauf*ck. Not sure how to spell 'photo' though. Happy new year to all!
http://www.geenstijl.nl/feauteaufuck/manches/19/index.html

Posted by: phuti at January 2, 2006 10:06 AM

Jim, as far as you are concerned, I would suggest to write your own biography about your life and suffering, which somehow has no connection with the case. I could write a book about all the horrors I have experienced but it has nothing to do with Natalee Holloway or Beth, so stick to the issues.

Posted by: Inge Hanson at December 31, 2005 08:11 PM


Inge - There is no need for anyone to write a "book" (it would be rather small) about the personal loss and temporary results that were caused because of it. The whole point of that post obviously went right over your head. Beth has chosen replacement to deal with her daughter's disappearance. I learned firsthand that most types of replacement are of a negative fashion. Mine was extremely negative. Beth's is as well. I don't have to go into details. It's obvious.

Another point of that post Inge was to let you know that I as well disagree with what Beth is doing, but I do it for one simple reason: I personally know why she is doing what she is doing. She's running away from the one scenario she cannot face right now, that being returning to her life at home and rebuilding what she has left.

When I've criticized Beth Twitty, I've at least had the coutesy to mention that I know what she's going through. Althor is too angry and personally involved with his hatred of Beth Twitty, and judging YOUR response to my thoughts, are as well.

If Beth is hurting anyone, it certainly isn't YOU Inge, nor Althor. This continual and seemingly endless rhetoric that Althor spills becomes boring and irritating.


This unwarranted hatred towards Beth Twitty seems unhealthy to me. My suggestion for you is to get a new hobby. It may prove to be more fruitful than your current one here.


Posted by: Jim Hanson at January 2, 2006 11:17 AM

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------
also-- try using spell check)

GAD!!

Posted by: newbiebarbie at December 31, 2005 04:12 PM
---------------------------------------------------------------

Please! Show where! You arse!!!

Althor

Posted by: Althor at December 31, 2005 05:24 PM


See Althor? You post for self fulfillment. Look at the anger you show when you are criticized about your posts.

You're a nasty guy.

Posted by: Jim Hanson at January 2, 2006 11:22 AM

To Jim,

Very well put for once. This time I totally agree with you. Hatred governs so many people in this world that it leads to blindness and brings out the worst in them. Their "unwarranted hatred" if not checked, leads to the many problems which we see in the world today. It takes a brave man to acknowledge his mistakes in the past to actually know what another person is going through in the same sort of circumstances.

Remember me?

Sue

Posted by: sue at January 2, 2006 11:29 AM

To Jim,

And incidentally, this is my first post on this thread so don't get me mixed up with the other sue that has been posting on this site.

Posted by: Sue at January 2, 2006 11:39 AM

He died young but he left a ton of friends and a family that still worships him. Can you say that Jim?

Posted by: flightoffancy at January 1, 2006 04:08 PM


This is getting ridiculous. My wife died young and left lots of friends and loved ones flightoffancy. And her family still thinks about her and what a wonderful mother and wife she was ... especially me. You're comparing your husband to my wife. What is your point?

Better yet, I don't want to know. Your husband is dead. My wife is dead. You did things your way. I did things my way. I wasn't there for my kids for 4 months until I received help and admitted I needed it. You should know as well as me these things take time. My children both love me. My life has changed but has been normal for close to 6 years now.

I have no intention on arguing with you about the semantics of dealing with death. So let's end this alright? It's not pleasant discussing these things on a continual basis. You have your life and I'm sorry about your husband. I wish you the best.

Posted by: Jim Hanson at January 2, 2006 11:44 AM

To flightoffancy,

Gee flightoffancy, for someone who has experienced pain and loss, what has become of you??? I think Jim has taken it far far better than you have. I really, really feel sorry for you!!

Posted by: sue at January 2, 2006 12:14 PM

No One knows how they would react in a situation like this with a child totally disappearing on a vacation in another country unless we were the one it happened to. It became a story because of the elements -unsolved mystery.Thank God for freedom of speech for all of us -Aruba and US.We have a free media for good or for bad-in some places you are in jail for saying something they don't like.It may be the only thing that keeps her going and gives her a reason at this point. It has only been 7 months. She will grieve the rest of her life- this is just the first year of shock and disbelief.We should not think it is some kind of conspiracy plot or anything more than a mothers gutwrenching reaction to something NONE of us would wish on our own lives.

Posted by: Kristin at January 2, 2006 1:03 PM

Dear Moey:

Other than Natalee making an appearance with her baby, I doubt there will be any breakthroughs in this case. I suspect that Natalee's letter has been authenticated. Clearly, the Birmingham FBI Office laid down on investigating anything in the Kingdom of Mountain Brook. In my opinion, the case is over.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 2, 2006 2:12 PM

"Other than Natalee making an appearance with her baby, I doubt there will be any breakthroughs in this case."

Dear Harry,

You are confusing us. What if Natalee without a baby? Not so that I feel that likely, but has that possibility been at all excluded?

Posted by: George at January 2, 2006 2:40 PM

George:

Why would you even waste a post, claiming that you are confused?

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 2, 2006 2:49 PM

Dear Harry,
You said: "Secondly, it has been mentioned that Thomas Twitty, not Hunter Twitty, was provided a lawyer. As I researched the case, it appeared that the lawyer was someone close to the family, if not a blood relative. Accordingly, I would not read to much into this."

http://www.bowronlatta.com/attorney/tet.htm

I bet that guy could find a competant attorney. Sorry if I am OT.

coastal

Posted by: coastal Author Profile Page at January 2, 2006 2:55 PM

Dear coastal:

I do not understand your post. Is this Thomas Twitty's (son of Thomas & Marcia Twitty) lawyer? If he is, then his specialty is not criminal law. Actually, the law firm: Bowron Latta and Wadsen PC does not offer crimial law services. If your point is that the law firm could find a capable criminal lawyer, then I would most certainly agree.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 2, 2006 3:50 PM

Her campaign should be against teenage drinking not how to go ahead and drink just make sure you have a buddy.
You want to understand WHY Beth is acting like that ?
She lost control, I believe is not a drinking with responsibility campaign, is making a CLUB to teach us to be GOOD PARENTS, because most of the time we do not have the eyes to accept to defects of our children.
Ii I would have to deal with parents like Beth I think I will do the same thing as Natalee, Can you imagine if she is or was pregnant? Do you believe Beth or Dave will appreciate a grand child mulatto or a Latino? Can you imagine, Is the MB society going to accept that child? Is she going to give him/her in adoption? Will Natalee be welcome back in MB? If she reappears how are gong to return the funds? Does the family wants Natalee to reappear???
antoinette

Posted by: antoinette at January 2, 2006 4:03 PM

Ref: Harry to all 11:53pm

Thank you Harry!

All this jabber away from always the same posters is almost an insult on the brain.
Is it always like this with these people?

With Alaaf,

Posted by: letstalk at January 2, 2006 4:06 PM

Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------
See Althor? You post for self fulfillment. Look at the anger you show when you are criticized about your posts.

You're a nasty guy.

Posted by: Jim Hanson at January 2, 2006 11:22 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------

Like Beth parading in the "limelight"?!?!?!

Too bad I'm not getting "De Luxe accommodations," Private Jets, and Limos out of it!!!!!

Althor

Posted by: Althor at January 2, 2006 5:24 PM

Hi everyone!
Althor, I'm glad to see that you are still posting. I noticed that you attributed "therose's" eloquent paragraph to me. Alas, I am not the wondersful writers that the two of you are so I cannot take the credit. I do agree with Harry, though, unless the kid shows up small baby in tow, or the FBI decides to investigate or the Aruban prosecutor decides to seek extradition of some americans...it is probably an exceedingly "cold case" now and that appears that is what all involved want. Apparently, the holidays were used to completely abandon the search for natalee.

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at January 2, 2006 5:38 PM

Dear Harry,

You spoke of a blood relative attorney. This attorney's name is Thomas Twitty. I thought I had a match, lol. Oh well.

By the by, is your assertion that there has been no investigation in Birmingham and there will never be? If so you are right, the case is over.

That Twitty attorney doesn't really need to aid in anything at all then, does he? I would imagine that this guy would have major influences all over Alabama with just the right people, wouldn't you? Or maybe this is all a result of a job well done.

Regards,
coastal

Posted by: coastal Author Profile Page at January 2, 2006 5:47 PM

Hi Little Bo Peep!

Yes, I still post here. I have been banned from Debbie's and Ian's "Blogs for Natalee," and "The Political Teen," for "being unkind to Beth," and now from no lesser piece of blogdom garbage than "The Unusual Susupects" where our beloved Dayo Gould has taken over with his "Useless Knowledge" to bash America at every chance he gets, though it has nothing to do with Natalee or the case!

Unbelievably as it may sound to the Beth "Kool Aid" drinking crowd, I did not get banned for calling Beth a b**ch or such other, but for calling Dayo on his gratuitous "bashing" of America! So much for Althor the "Patriot," eh?

But I do not bemoan the loss. I can just picture them all patting each other on the back, and blindly adoring Dayo's every hateful word! If it suits them, let then enjoy their "Useless Knowledge"!!!

What can I say?!?!

It is pitiful!!!

Althor

Posted by: Althor at January 2, 2006 6:25 PM

Dear coastal:

I never identified the actual relative representing Thomas Twitty.

My belief is that the Birmingham FBI Office just laid down instead of investigating the Kingdom of Mountain Brook students.

One question, if answered, that might really strike a blow against the Kingdom of Mountain Brook is where SAC Carmen S. Adams resides in Jefferson County. If it happens to be the Kingdom of Mountain Brook, then did she have kids on the trip to Aruba?

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 2, 2006 6:48 PM

Harry:

Thanks for your answer. I feel you are probably right. They can't reinterview without new evidence and they can't get new evidence (IMHO) without interviewing everyone from MB which includes all parents, kids and chaperones, so it is a viscious circle. For whatever reason they sure seem to have backed off of the MB kids, that really puzzles me.

I wish Joran would tell the rest that he knows, but for some reason he is stating that he can't talk right now and that is one thing that keeps me hoping that she is alive, but perhaps he made a promise not to say anything until a certain time.

No matter what happens next, I do believe there are many, many answers available in MB, Alabama.

I also think there will be a series of lawsuits in the future over many aspects of this case and it is not going to be a bed of roses for Beth and her family.

Again, thanks for your insights and keep us posted of anything you hear about that is 'coming down the pike.' Moey

Posted by: MOEY at January 2, 2006 9:33 PM

To All:

Rita Crosby of MSNBC News interviewed Steve Cohen and Stacey Honowitz (attorney). Rita probed Steve Cohen concerning the 10-day time line for the re-questioning of the three suspects. Before Steve responded, Rita aired Robin Holloway's statement, concerning a discussion with prosecutor Karin Janssen, that the suspects were released unconditionally. Steve concurs with Robin Holloway. Steve states that letters of invitation were sent out to the three suspects' attorneys. Steve declines to issue a time line for re-questioning. He refers to the re-questioning as a cat& mouse game and identifies the prosecutor as adept cat.

Rita then airs the Dairio's recent "Joran's admitting to rape" article.

Stacey Honowitz discounts any chance of a rape charge, because of the absence of a witness. Stacey completely discounts any chance of voluntary re-questioning. She feels the prosecution is trying to play catch up too late after all the screw ups in the early stages of the investigation.

Comment: If there is a cat & mouse game ongoing in this investigation, the cat has been sleeping for a long time in front of the wrong mouse hole. Any alleged confession printed by the Dairio should be categorized side-by-side with alien abductions.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 2, 2006 10:02 PM

Monsieur Harry
What is happening with the investigation in MB, AL???
bonne nuit,
antoinette

Posted by: antoinette at January 2, 2006 10:19 PM

Mademoiselle Antoinette:

To the best of my knowledge, there is no investigation going in the Kingdom of Mountain Brook. The only form of an inquiry in the Kingdom of Mountain Brook is a "request for information" poster contained in the Birmingham FBI Office website.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 2, 2006 10:27 PM

Well I immediately emailed stupid twit Rita - she is even becoming more annoying than Nancy disGrace - with her over the top wording of things - even Greta had the good sense to say that Joran's confession to Dairo was not true last week - so where has Rita been - totally stuck on stupid - I am so sick of the media - can't wait for the bedtime story of the Twit - her journal - bet that will be good! if we are lucky the miners will interupt!

Posted by: Jan at January 2, 2006 10:41 PM

Well so far it appears I got my wish Beth will not be happy she got interupted by the miners - just like that nasty hurricane - what ever will she do - and they were going through the journal bit by bit - one a bunch of garbage!

Posted by: Jan at January 2, 2006 10:46 PM

Harry:

It shouldn't be too hard to identify where SAC Adams lives, is it? Perhaps she is from MB and did have kids or other relatives on that particular trip? Interesting question to research. Moey

Posted by: MOEY at January 2, 2006 10:53 PM

To All:

Greta of Fox News airs an expose of Beth Twitty's journal. The journal could best be describe as creative writing from the Holiday Inn and other related Caribbean fantasies. I suspect, if eventually published, Jossy Mansur will write the preface or introduction in order to authenticate the manuscript as a true work of art. Obviously, a cast of the usual loonies and parasites will write testimonials, lauding the accuracy of the text.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 2, 2006 10:54 PM

Hi Harry and all,
I have been thinking about this situation and I find it very bizarre that the FBI is essentially doing nothing. What could be going on here that the FBI can be shut down? Who has the power to do this and for what reason? Why is it so important to pin this "crime" on the "three Aruban suspects"? How come noone is interested in any other scenario? Really, with all the people on that island for the Soul Beach Festival. With the Scientology yacht, th yacht of the Prince from some Middle eastern country and the original two security guard suspects at this concert how come noone saw anything. The yachts and the bands must have had their own security. I'm sure there were other yachts there too with their own security. Every hotel room on the island was booked. Did they just roll up the sidewalks that night? Noone was around? Noone saw a thing? Also, Harry, it is rumored that the young woman met with a casino owner for dinner or breakfast. How did she get this meeting? I mean how often does a big business guy drop everything to lunch with an ordinary, regular looking blonde girl from Alabama? How was that meeting arranged. Harry, there are still tons of unanswered questions and the most important one is: Where is this kid and Why isn't the FBI on the case in the states?

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at January 2, 2006 11:12 PM

Wait a minute.

There are 13 men in a mine, they are trying furiously to rescue and that could possibly BE dead.....their families are all there,hoping and praying, and Greta HAS Beth Twitty on, to read from a...a... JOURNAL?!?!?!?!


ShakingMyHead...what the hell is WRONG with Greta?

Posted by: Donna at January 3, 2006 12:08 AM

Dear Little Bo Peep:

I believe that this blog has explored as many alternate avenues of investigation as anyone. The FBI just laid down. Why? It seems to me that SAC Carmen S. Adams was somehow related to the case or influential people in Alabama or the Kingdom of Mountain Brook. We only got half the investigation, so the Arubans are dead in the water.

I believe the Arubans sweep clean the possibilities in Aruba. So, if the FBI laid down, then there will never be a case.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 3, 2006 12:51 AM

Hi harry,
thanks for your honest assessment. I know you have covered this issue from every angle more thoroughly than anyone else, these developments must be frustrating to you.
Wanted to let you know that a poster on RWV posted that Dave Holloway has hired a female PI. They speculated that he was aware of this FBI situation and is going to ask questions on his own. What do you think?

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at January 3, 2006 1:48 AM

Has the family received a truthful accounting of Natalee's last night? How many stories have been put forth by those last seen with her? Was the investigation fair and impartial by investigator, judicial people, and people in the prosecutors office? The very people who determine the course of the investigation and establish guilt? People who worked on a daily basis or in some work related capacity with the father of one of the early suspects? Did they excuse themselves? If not, why not? JMHO

Perhaps the FBI response is to let the Aruban's work on resolution to the issue. I don't think it is the FBI's investigation. JMHO

Posted by: iwabwu at January 3, 2006 6:35 AM

Donna - Noticed that too!!! We lost a city in Texas due to fires, Miners taped, BUT wait we need to review Beth's Journal. Now we know she has lied, so I put her Journal in the same content as Skeeter's tapes!! BOGUS!!!

Sorry, but no way will I allow Beth anywhere near my kids or relative's kids to teach them her values!! She has none!!...

I am sick and tired of those saying she is just an upset mother cause her daughter is missing. Well if she is sooooo upset, than she should not be on TV calling people horrible damaging names. (What show in the last 7 moths has she been upset on!!?? I have not seen her upset on any of them and watched a lot!!) What if the shoe was on the other foot!!??

If she comes to my area I will protest the schools, write school boards, churches, government. This is No Lady that should be talking to kids. A liar, an Unstable Mother, a Mother who did not care about her kid from the get go, A Family who has misused their religion. I do not want this lady talking or advising my kids or relative kids. Stay in AL and advise away.

Posted by: Lisa11011 at January 3, 2006 6:53 AM

Althor-
Why do you lie about Dayo bashing America ? He never has.
It's no wonder they keep throwing you off of blogs.
Not everyone who disagrees with your extreme right wing nationalism is bashing America.

Posted by: vox_veritas at January 3, 2006 8:48 AM

---------------------------------------------------------------
Althor-
Why do you lie about Dayo bashing America ? He never has.
It's no wonder they keep throwing you off of blogs.
Not everyone who disagrees with your extreme right wing nationalism is bashing America.

Posted by: vox_veritas at January 3, 2006 08:48 AM
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Oh my! "Extreme right wing Nationalism!" Is that like versus "Left wing Viet Cong flag wielding cut-and-run defeatists Internationalists?"

Why don't you perouse some of Dayo's posts more carefully, and you'll see for yourself. Of course, you can join TUS and pat each other on the back as you all sit drooling in adoration of him. Some people drink the "Beth Kool Aid," there they drink the "Dayo Kool Aid!"

By the way, bad choice for a name: "Vox_veritas!" It doesn't do you justice!My regards to your fellow "Dayoites" at TUS! LOL!

Althor

Posted by: Althor at January 3, 2006 9:44 AM

Althor, I love to read your stuff but you gotta get off the Dayo thing. Who cares? Look, I post at Unusual Suspects and think it's a great site, so it's tough to see you're gone over there, but lighten up, OK? Sometimes you come off with too much caustic stuff oozing out of your stuff, so give us your "take" on things, but get off the ugly junk. OK? Please?

betsy

Posted by: betsy at January 3, 2006 10:55 AM

"How would you feel if your daughter were raped, murdered and thrown away? How can you say such horrible things. I will never go to Aruba, nobody should, the government has covered this awful murder up."...Well my dearest friend Sue....This must be one that has been brainwashed by Beth and the gang. With all respect madam, I am from Aruba and we have been involve in the coverage of all the news, conferences of both sides and we DID MONITOR THE NIGHTS_OUT OF MRS BETH TWITTY. Who told you that Natalee has been raped and murdered? If you know that this is the case and yoiu do have any legal evidences please take the first plane and come over here so you can help solving the case. Do be stupid in following just one side of the story. Beth was havinbg a ball in Aruba during the night on account of our people. If Natalee is dead we should have found her a long time ago. This is just a small island and each single stones and rocks have been removed by many search groups, FBI, Dutch Marines and volunteers on the island. There is no dead body, there is no evidence of a crime, there is no sign of anything. No one is covering up for nobody. Nobody but nobody stands above the law in the Dutch Kingdom. So, if you want to bla bla bla please stay focus and don't go insane by writting stupidities. If you have a daughter and you don't want her to fly to Aruba it's o.k. Bring her to Alabama where there are ove thousand young boys and girls mmissing, she might become one more on the list. If you don't know what happens here stay out and try to live a normal life instead of listening to Beth that was more having a party on the island instead of really searching for Natalee. Beth knows darn well that Natalee left the island alive, and if she is of good intention she must come to Aruba and tell us why. Don't tell me that after only six hours of her arrival on Aruba, many american t.v. crew joined her tyo Aruba. That is the proof that we have that this is a set up from the Twitties. Beth is not grieving at all. All she is doing is to mislead you americans with a dramatic story in order for her to reveive some green dollars. So Sue hold tight! I repeat this over and over again. Most of the americans that posted negativities against Aruba has never been to Aruba. They don't even know that Aruba exist, and thank god that they will never come to Aruba, because Aruba is not for everybody.

Posted by: Albert at January 3, 2006 12:19 PM

Albert: Thanks for the post from Aruba and another insight into what has been happening.

I don't understand why people can't see that there is no evidence of rape, murder, kidnapping or any type of crime against Natalee. The only evidence points to the fact that there is a missing person from Aruba, but no other forensic evidence to point to what happened; no witnesses, no clothing, etc., etc. We have a lot of speculation from Beth and others about what might have occurred, but nothing that would hold up in a court of law.

I do believe that there are people who have more information to include the three boys, PVDS, and of course all the MB kids, chaperones along with their cameras, cell phones, etc., but that avenue seems to be blocked right now for whatever reasons. Thanks for your post.

Posted by: moey at January 3, 2006 12:38 PM

Dear Little Bo Peep:

If it is true that Dave Holloway hired a private investigator to look into the Kingdom of Mountain Brook, then I would classify that as Dave's best idea yet! Bravo to Dave!

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 3, 2006 2:02 PM

Iwabwu:

The Arubans are waiting for the Kingdom of Mountain Brook input from the FBI. Congressman Bacchus promised the Arubans full cooperation from the FBI. What do you suppose Congressman Bacchus did that? Was His Excellency grandstanding for Greta's media? Maybe you missed all that?

The Kingdom of Mountain Brook has belonged to the FBI since the beginning. They just never did much.

But, I do agree with you. The FBI has been waiting, too long, for the Arubans to resolve the case.

I will write again this evening on the shortcomings in this investigation.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 3, 2006 2:09 PM

I really don't see how the FBI can be involved? What would give them any jurisdiction in this case?

Posted by: kc at January 3, 2006 2:38 PM

Is Twitty/Holloways want her to reappear? They have been making millions out of this story. What about if Natalee does not want us to know where is she? Natalee has all the right to remain silent if she decides, US says that she is now 19 YRS old and she is an adult. Not a criminal to denounce her, so under what article of the law people could denounce Natalee?
Even Dave, I have the feeling that he is looking because of the insurance, if he does not find her there is no evidence that Natalee is dead or she was murder. So no benefits.
Do they have to return the money, big question? They have several accounts. They have been making auctions. Aruba has been spending quite a lot of money looking for Natalee. Are the Arubans going to blame Twitty/Holloways for the decrease of tourism? If they lawsuit, is the right to ask for all the looses, (compared to the last 5 yrs) because Beth and Dave had called for a boycott and they made it in international media. We witness that fact.
Now about the re questioning they have all the right to release them with prejudice, because they never gave new evidence, so if no new evidence was presented. Beth, always said about the documents she had but never brought them to be examined in order to be part of the new evidence. Now they are making threats in a public manner to the J & K2. Believe if they were in US Twitty/Holloways will be jailed.

Posted by: antoinette at January 3, 2006 3:14 PM

Dear KC:

FBI 101?

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 3, 2006 4:14 PM

I noticed that Beth Holloway seems to lose her laywers. I am aware of 2 female ones, now a male. Are they quitting on her? Are they being fired?

Posted by: jo at January 3, 2006 6:27 PM

JO,

In answer to your question regarding Beth Twitty and her many lawyers. I would suggest the answer to that is simple. When Beth Twitty is told what she doesn't want to hear, she moves on to someone else, and keeps moving until she finds someone who will tell her what she wants to hear. Maybe she is now paying John Q Kelly enough money that he will support her outrageous behavior and tell her what she wants to hear, and possibly for the public exposure he can get from this also. If her tires of it, then she will go to someone else.

I have seen this happen in the Psychiatric field I worked in for many years. Mom brings disturbed child in for behavior control, she is told she is the problem not the child, Mom rejects that and takes the child to another Psychiatrist. It catch up with her after a while, as the news gets around from one psych office to another, but the child is severely damaged in the process.

Beth Twitty is doing esseentially the same thing, going to the media who is for some reason not challenging her, then running from lawyer to lawyer until she finds someone who will side with her, and in the meantime she is inflicting damage on an entire Island for something she has created. Her plight has caused people in Aruba jobs, and damaged reputations, but she hasn't a care in the world about that, just about what she wants and the way she wants it. In essence Beth Twitty is a very disturbed woman, and wants to drag everyone down with her.

Aruba is fighting back now, and good for them. They must not let this disturbed individual drag them down and cause chaos on their Island. What she is trying to do right now is make the citizens of Aruba revolt against their own government to avoid the boycott. That is her plight, and I hope Arubans do not allow that to happen.

Harry, I am out there on that limb with you, I have a feeling that the letter is valid, and as incredible as it sounds, I think that is the last thing that Beth Twitty wants at this point. She is caught up in this media circus of being the tv queen of the moment and loving it. She is drinking in all the money that keeps rolling in and loving it. If Natalee returns her bubble is burst. I would love to be wrong about this, but I dont' think I am. Over a period of 20 years plus I have dealt with many Beth Twitty's and they sure are not pretty to deal with.

Albert, tell all Arubans to stand firm against this demon of a woman, many Americans are on your side. Thanks for telling us what you can share with us.

Posted by: therose at January 3, 2006 7:23 PM

sue wrote at January 2, 2006 12:14 PM - Respond -

To flightoffancy,

Gee flightoffancy, for someone who has experienced pain and loss, what has become of you??? I think Jim has taken it far far better than you have. I really, really feel sorry for you!!


I was responding to a post I found, not on subject, and whining about his own past problems. Then you, Sue, come in and attack me for some reason I can't quite figure out. What is your major malfunction? Your love fest with Beth Twitty has really put you over the edge. As I said before in an earlier post, you must be one of the Twitty's or a close relative to be so defensive of her. The Truth and The Facts seems to be something you have trouble dealing with. But unlike you, I don't feel sorry for you. But I would like to give you some advise. Lay off the booze, eventually it will kill you if you keep drinking like you are now.

Posted by: flightoffancy at January 3, 2006 11:33 PM

Hi Harry,
I have a question about the beginning of this case. Everyone says they botched the case at the beginning, but I don't see it that way at all. Even in the USA, we don't usually start investigating a missing person until they have been gone for at least 24 hours sometimes 48 hours. Especially an adult, and Natalee, at 18, was an adult. We have teenagers running off all the time. California is full of them. And as far as the black security guards being arrested early in the case, they had a history of bugging the young tourists, and had some of their things in their rooms. Sounds like probably cause to me. And why did Beth Twitty demand they be released? It's like she wanted a certain outcome from the very beginning. The only way I can see they botched this case is not demanding Beth Twitty back off and let them investigate properly. Like getting her camera and the film in it and her cell phone and luggage before Beth had a chance to destroy or hide evidence that could have been usefull in the investigation. What is your take on the beginning?

Posted by: flightoffancy at January 3, 2006 11:43 PM

Dear flightoffancy:

Let me help you out here. According to a well-placed source on Aruba, one of the Black security guards was an informant for the Aruban police. I hope that satisfies your concerns about any Aruban botching of the case early on. Both security guards occupied cells adjacent to two of the three suspects. They both were employed as informants.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at January 4, 2006 12:30 AM

Hi Flight,

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the ranting of Sue, as she may well be another paid twitty/holloway poster. I know you have dealt with your loses very well and in a healthy way, and that is what is important. I dealt with the loss of my husband in a healthy way also. People need to understand that there is a healthy way to deal with loss and an unhealthy way. Jim dealt in an unhealthy way, but he didn't apparently hurt anyone but himself and his relationships with his children for a while, but then he realized he needed additional help and apparently is working through it constructively now.

As far as Beth Twitty is concerned, she doesn't really know whether or not she has a loss yet, since no crime has been established but she chooses to make it a crime, and lash out at everyone in her way. She is a woman with many problems, and I won't go into them on a comment board, however one must realize that there are people in this world who enjoy being a victim. It gives them meaning and purpose in the world.

Sometimes when women reach a certain age and see their youth fading and have other women in their life that are coming to the fore front, they view them as competition. In Beth's case Natalee was competition, as well as Jug's daughter, and Robin. All young women picking up the spot light that Beth feels should be hers. Now if Natalee really is gone, she can adjust to that and become a victim and pickup the spotlight, from not only Natalee, but Jugs daughter and Robin. She is suddenly the "It" woman again. Sought after, wanted, forget the fading youth, a little plastic surgery and everyone ringing her phone, and bringing an entire Island to their knees, gives her an entirely new platform in life. This has entirely noth8ing to do with grief but with a woman who refuses to give up the spotlight, and a narcissitic need to be on center stage. For that she would even give up her daughter. That is a woman in need of psychiatric counseling, but one who will never admit it.

Posted by: therose at January 4, 2006 1:32 AM

SNIP: I have a question about the beginning of this case....
Posted by: flightoffancy at January 3, 2006 11:43 PM

Flight:
Great post. Harry's response to your question was very enlightening.
One of my pet peeves is how they keep harping on how irresponsible this 17 year old kid was for leaving 18 year old Natalee alone on the beach. IMO, he did the responsible thing by trying to persuade her to return to her hotel, and failing in that he went home and got ready for school. If her own parents felt she was responsible enough to take this trip, when they KNEW alcohol was one of the main attractions for these kids, then it shouldn't be incumbent upon a stranger to baby-sit her. Another thing that bugs me is Beth's claim that any sexual acts between them couldn't be consensual because Natalee had been drinking, therefore Joran is guilty of committing some kind of sex crime.
What she fails to include in her diatribe is that 17 year old Joran was drinking too. If the suspects are telling the truth, and 18 year old Natalee performed a sex act on Joran (a 17 year old minor) then why isn't anyone calling for Natalee to be charged with a sex crime?

Posted by: Max at January 4, 2006 1:34 AM

SNIP: This has entirely noth8ing to do with grief but with a woman who refuses to give up the spotlight, and a narcissitic need to be on center stage. For that she would even give up her daughter. That is a woman in need of psychiatric counseling, but one who will never admit it.

Posted by: therose at January 4, 2006 01:32 AM

I can't begin to tell you how much I agree with your assessment of Beth Twitty. There is a lot of talk about Beth and Natalee having a troubled relationship. I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't hit upon the main cause of the friction between them.

Posted by: Max at January 4, 2006 1:41 AM

"why isn't anyone calling for Natalee to be charged with a sex crime?"

Dear Max,

First, I happened to see such calls at some discussion forums, so that I could rather answer a question "why such calls are generally not taken seriously". I see many reasons for this with two major being 1) 16 as Arubam age of consent, and 2) Natalee's unapprehendability.

Posted by: George at January 4, 2006 3:15 AM

SNIP: 16 as Arubam age of consent,
Posted by: George at January 4, 2006 03:15 AM

Thanks for the info, George.

Posted by: Max at January 4, 2006 3:26 AM

"Dear KC:

FBI 101?

Harry"

I'd love a lesson ... what gives the FBI any jurisdiction in Natalee's case? Certainly not the ALE. If anyone knows, tell me.

kc

Posted by: kc at January 4, 2006 8:33 AM



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