December 19, 2005
HarryTho 12/19 Natalee Holloway CommentaryTopics: Natalee Holloway
This evening, let us discuss the reason for the Mountain Brook students' refusal to speak with the investigators. Although we could look into sinister explanations, I will settle for the notion of loyalty. Loyalty generally connotes all forms of patriotic imagery. In this editorial, I will explore a few of those connotations and allow them to separate out into adversarial positions.
Loyalty in its most general expression refers to a bond that is upheld between like-minded individuals. Sometimes, this bond may imply an allegiance with a particular belief system. Our military system would be such an example. In this respect, loyalty implies trust. This trust reaches further than the bond existing between fellow combatants. It soars above and beyond to all beneficiaries. We see this in days of reverence for those who have fallen.
Loyalty under the foregoing example is not difficult to identify. Most Americans, as well as non-Americans, can appreciate the value of this form of loyalty.
When we exam the notion of justice, a term that likewise shares trust in its connotations, we discover an unusual stratification. The soaring and extending bond that we affiliated with loyalty in patriotism becomes clouded in justice.
In America, we have a Constitution that incorporates many civil guarantees, provided that we agree to uphold it. Although the Constitution has limitations, for the most part, it is a good document that seems to provide a sense of fairness for all involved (it has shortcomings).
Fairness under the law is a common simplification of our Constitution with respect to individual rights. Actually, fairness is an old idea with an origin in class society. We must remember that the origin, whether we select the senate at Athens or the Magna Carta in England, was immersed in a class society. There existed qualifications in order to warrant fairness.
In a class society, qualifications were strictly enforced. Fairness was commensurate to your class. Fairness found difficulty being expressed up the vertical slope of hierarchal classes. Although in America, we claim a horizontal society with respect to justice. I believe, reality demonstrates the elusivity of such a notion. Actually, in frankness, it a wonderful chimera to which we subscribe. As Socrates was reported by Plato to have said to Glaucon: "The myth will save us, if we choose to believe it." (Republic Book X)
The hierarchies of fairness were enforced by their constituents via a common bond. Regardless of the name of the bond, the glue adhering it was loyalty. One protected one's rights, and in turn the rights of all others within the class, via loyalty. One, we could say, was loyal to one's class.
Let us not forget that there exists a strange kind of loyalty to a greater notion implied within the Constitution. The notion of "liberty and justice for all" means something quite different from class loyalty. Our Constitution, the document governing our lands, implies a fairness that transcends hierarchal classes, however they may be created.
From the foregoing, succinctly, I am referring to a kind of loyalty that we mean in the Constitution and a kind of loyalty within specific groups. When we mention the word loyalty within the context of justice, we refer to that loyalty from which we share, and derive benefit, from our Constitution. The other loyalty refers to a bond for self-preservation in some specific manner.
Given the foregoing, let us revisit our predicament where the Mountain Brook students are refusing to speak to the investigators. Clearly, the idea of loyalty with respect to justice, spouted from the lips of the Mountain Brook people when residents of Aruba were incarcerated, referred to that loyalty we have for the justice implied in our Constitution. However, the refusal by the Mountain Brook students to cooperate with investigators departs from our sense of loyalty to justice in our Constitution. In this refusal, the Mountain Brook students revert to a sense of justice immersed within a sense of class: i.e., Mountain Brook, Alabama, etc. A sense of We versus Them emerges. In this emergence, the Mountain Brook students appeal to a sense of class loyalty for protection. It is important that we deconstruct this Mountain Brook sense of loyalty, because it will not be voiced. It will be allowed to grind within the social internalization of the fellow members of the class.
A similar separation of loyalty occurs whenever an impression arises that another class appears to have a free ride on certain aspects of justice. One can appreciate how the unfortunate members of society will bond together against the more fortunate classes whenever they sense an injustice, even if it is just economic. The popular phrase "never rat" is a common expression of this subclass loyalty. The prime movers of crime in America, and I suppose in other areas of the world, are lubricated with this form of class loyalty.
If we separate Constitution loyalty from class loyalty, we can explain many of the demarcations that have formed in the case of Natalee's disappearance. The Mountain Brook students' refusal is but one example of such a separation. And, as we have witnessed, they were not even aware of a separation forming when they hawked the incarceration of the residents of Aruba.
Moving on to news, Aruba speaks out concerning Beth Twitty's tactics and Aruba's intentions:<
Beth's Strategy Continues...And despite claims of the Alabama-Arkansas-Georgia boycott having an effect on tourism in Aruba, the Amigoe reports a 7% increase in tourism during the ordeal of Natalee Holloway's disappearance.
Beth Twitty is a resourceful, committed advocate, dedicated to finding out what happened to her daughter and seeking justice. That is laudable, but her techniques are not.
Her Tactics Include...
Demonizing Aruba: Beth Twitty continues to position Aruba as the evil force in the case. In interviews last week, she took the opportunity to contend that officials are withholding evidence, and want the investigation to end. And she claims Aruba is unsafe for travelers.
Demeaning All Efforts: Beth Twitty continues to negate and demean any efforts to solve the case or explain Aruba's side of the story. She says all efforts are "chamber of commerce," or "public relations," designed to attract tourism. Even the meeting by Adolpho Richardson with Alabama Congressman Spencer Bacchus was tossed away as "meaningless."
What Is Next...
The investigation continues. This in spite of the "boycotts," NOT because of them. The boycotts are seen as a chokehold on the average Aruban, and have only served to complicate and enrage the population. And it is true that about 3-5% of losses may be due to the boycotts. It is in everyone's interest to resolve the case. But asking for sanctions, from a population that cannot affect the pace or content of the investigation is simply irresponsible.
Tourism Aruba on the riseWith that, we'll move on to comments and dialogue.In another news item, Rita Crosby of MSNBC News interviewed John Q. Kelly and Arlene Ellis-Schipper.
ARUBA -- Nancy Grace of CNN said on American radio that she cannot understand that the tourism in Aruba has increased with 7 percent since the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.
Grace said this in a radio show of MSNBC of presenter Don Imus. She said being shocked that the tourism in Aruba has grown. "Since the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, 7 percent more tourist have gone to Aruba, and 70 percent are Americans. How is this possible?" She indicated that she does not understand her fellow citizens that have chosen to spend their vacation in Aruba. Grace has her own TV program on CNN, where on a daily basis she encourages American citizens to avoid Aruba as long as the Holloway-case is not solved. Meanwhile also some governors of American states are calling their people up to boycott Aruba. The governor of Georgia, Sonny Perdue, joined the governor of Alabama, Bob Riley and that of Arkansas, Mike Huckabee in the boycott of Aruba.
John reviewed his function to open communication between the Aruban law enforcement and the Twitty-Holloway family. He refused to engage a conversation about a future lawsuit. He insisted that the course of action now is for the criminal justice system to do its thing. John referred to the witness/suspect lying dilemma as a case of semantics. He feels that the investigation into the Mountain Brook students is a sideshow. He insists that the answers are in Aruba. In closing, he stressed that the family expects answers from Aruba.
Arlene Ellis-Schipper stated that the intent is to reinvestigate the boys, after they have established what form of relationship Natalee had with Joran. When asked by Rita why this investigation of the Mountain Brook students has taken so long, Arlene responded that the Aruban law enforcement has been waiting on the FBI for over a month, and that it is the FBI that will conduct the investigation of the Mountain Brook students. She feels that any lawsuit, implied by Rita and not John Kelly, would indicate negligence on the part of Aruba. She insists that is not the case. She feels that John Kelly should focus on depolarizing the situation.
Comment: John Q. Kelly is the agent for Beth Twitty. Despite his hard stance, he is merely parroting the aspirations of his client. We need to remember that.
Posted for HarryTho
Posted by Richard at December 19, 2005 9:46 PM
As was said before, these are the privileged scions of some very, very distinguished Southern, aristocratic families.
All that they have done is to put their ancestors' proud histories into disrepute. Let's hope that none go to West Point; they are neither officer nor gentleman material.
What they have aided and abetted, by closing their eyes and remaining mute, is a bloody disgrace to their proud lineage---and for what? Just so that the pool of funds available to worthy charities will be sorely depleted by the funds extracted by HMI?
Posted by: Dayo Gould at December 19, 2005 10:19 PM
This whole MB senario is pathetic - talk about the pre Civil War privledged society - we have truly come full circle in this case. And the Fab 7 seem to want to focus on the tiny little corrupt little colorful island, how very very sad. And of course the Twitt was once again on tonite - at least Greta seems to be on holiday - so we get her replacement letting Beth say the meeting was pretty much a waste, her attn could not be there, they can certainly talk to MB although they already have THEIR STATEMENTS and they had better be rearresting J2K and DADDY sloot again! She is in Birmingham which I guess is refreshing, maybe she might make an appearance at home for the holidays. I just hope Greta gets some fun in the sun and clears the cobwebs out of her brain and returns in 2006 not stuck on stupid!
Posted by: Jan at December 19, 2005 10:44 PM
You are talking about loyalty. Then, they are not very loyal to Natalee or is it possible that they know her whereabouts and they do not want to speak out. Doesn't she deserve respect and loyalty; where are her friends? By the way what happened to Marcia T?
Everybody wanted to find the truth. Was really nice when they blame Joran and the Kalpoes, now is their turn.
By the way, I read Joran is going to Aruba for the holidays, HIS HEAD very high..
Twitty/Holloways, they are having a hard time swallowing the fact that the Boycott did not work; they must be wondering that people also got enough of their â€œtragedyâ€.
NOW Aruba is fighting back. So it is going to be interesting to see WHAT, HOW, WHERE & WHEN this case is going to end..
You make it more interesting, merci,
Posted by: antoinette at December 19, 2005 11:05 PM
Patriotism rules from the largest country to the smallest family. You can see it in Mountain Brook, you can see it in Aruba. This difference is 99.9% of Arubans don't have any idea or clues as to what happened to Natalee. It is very likely that a good percentage of Mountain Brook Student have clues to the investigation, but without talking, how can the ALE solve the case.
So many questions, like did Natalee come into contact with somebody else prior to Joran that hasn't been mentioned???
I read an inteview on MSNBC with Francis Ellen Byrd which claimed they reported Natalee missing right when they woke up? Why wasn't the police called then, why did they wait until after ALL 'children' were safe on the plane back to bama to report Natalee missing.
I have a feeling that Natalee did run away and Beth and Jug want their kidnapped daughter back. Dave H. on the other hand is the only one searching for a dead body, because he didn't get the memo from Natalee that she was taking off. Dave wasn't there to protect her when she needed him, so she would not confide in someone who she knew could not protect her.
Posted by: Gigi Ola at December 19, 2005 11:31 PM
Harry, you speak of loyalty and the code abided by groups of wealthy or priviledged folks. I was wondering what you thought of the way the people living in the Martha Moxley neighborhood behaved during the search for her, the investigation afterward, and today? It appears to me those wealthy and "titled" folks didn't jump on the Skakel bandwagon at all. They searched for Martha, tried to help in the investigation, and supported Mrs. Moxley throughout the years. The Skakels seemed to be the outcasts in many ways. Certainly the folks in Mountain Brook seem to cling to a different, more blind code of loyalty and fairness...one that shows neither real class, breeding, or fairness. Loyalty, yes. How unfortunate in this instance.
Posted by: betsy at December 19, 2005 11:58 PM
Dear Gigi Ola:
The posters over at The Bushy Haired Stranger (TBHS) have developed a number of scenarios. One scenario implicates Natalee in some of the activities of the prior evening with her classmates. These were activities that the Mountain Brook students desired not to be public knowledge.
Actually, TBHS group has some interesting avenues and offshoots of discussion surrounding this entire issue.
Posted by: harry at December 20, 2005 12:18 AM
What is striking me this evening is that all of the well know blog sites are uneasily quiet. Few posts or posters. True the holidays are coming but, it just seems very odd. Could it be that people feel so powerless without any concrete information that they are finally losing interest? Or, could it be that everyone is waiting for the "other shoe to drop". Whatever it is I think it has dawned on many that we may never see a resolution to this case and the girl may never come forward or be found. This is truly so sad and what a shame if innocent people have been hurt by all of this.
Posted by: Little Bo Peep at December 20, 2005 12:58 AM
Btw, Harry, thank you for such interesting and wonderful posts. You have truly found all of the pertinent information and presented it in a very entertaining manner in spite of the topic.
Posted by: Little Bo Peep at December 20, 2005 1:00 AM
Loyalty. What a word. It's a word that infects our whole life. It's invisible until we actually really think about it. We do think about it. But we don't really use semantics when we do. In our own personal lives, we regard the word loyalty in too many uncertain terms. Loyalty has helped shape each and every one of our lives, and in my own personal experience so far on this planet, I've met people who don't really know what the word loyalty means.
We're talking about loyalty to Natalee Holloway, in Mountain Brook. We're talking about semantics as well. We're talking about war here. If we're going to talk about the word loyalty, we need to expand a bit and talk about business. Everyday life. Every moment. Right down the pole. I'm a firm believer that you really only learn what you experience in this life. Education keeps your mind alive, it enables the cerebral juices to rotate and grab pertinent data that you are expected to take in. If you ignore this process while being formally educated in our schools and universities, you fail to achieve. Many people do not own the mental tools to achieve at this level in life, but the remainder do. Some people choose to not achieve even though they can. For the people who choose not to, and the people who cannot choose from the start, where does loyalty fit into their life? This is where the word loyalty can get complicated. Let's compare the word loyalty to the word lamp. A lamp is an inanimate object but can be described under many terms. It's old, an antique, ugly, just beautiful, worthless, priceless. As I said, personal experience plays, as I see it, the most important role in life. When one chooses to acknowledge personal experience, grasp it and understand it, life can almost seem much simpler to assemble.
I, unfortuanatley, own, and have to lockbox, re-register once a year and inform the RCMP of any provincial transportation of it, a .455 cal, circa 1916, Canadian Officer's pistol. It belonged to my grandfather, my father's father. I've been deemed to own it. I despise guns. For certain reasons, which I will not elaborate upon, my father has asked me to carry this obsolete weapon down through the family. I am my father's only son. After some unpleasant delegations regarding this cannon, I gave in. My grandfather Cliff carried this pistol in WWI. My grandfather Cliff died of lung cancer when I was five years old. I didn't know it until I was an adult but he wouldn't take the cobalt sessions back then for the simple reason that it was much too painful and worse than his cancer. He hired a private nurse and along with his doctor, he chose to die and continue smoking at home. I wasn't allowed to see this, thank God. Neither were my sisters. I never knew my grandfather Cliff very well. I only remember him as always having brownish teeth, a constant smile, and a cigarette in his hand. To this day, I was told he died a hero. Cobalt, back then was still essentially experimental and very painful. He chose to die at home with his family from a disease that he knew was going to kill him. My father told me when I was older that on the day he died, his ankles and feet looked similar to that of a six year old, and that he couldn't look any higher up towards his face.
I now own his .455 cal pistol, holster, an American musket from the 1700's that has been passed down through the generations, an artillery shell ashtray that he had made upon returning to Canada after WWI. I despise guns. Is this called loyalty?
My father and his 3 brothers were all in WWII. I've been told that their father never talked once about his experiences in WWI. Unfortunately for me, my father did. One of his brothers didn't, until about 10 years ago. I'm not even going to tell you why. It's too disgusting. My father and all 3 of my uncles via his brotherhood have claimed that they knew why they were doing what they were doing during the war. They all claim they did at the time. But it has been made clear to me through my father over the years that if any one of them could have snapped his fingers and been instantly returned home, they would have done so and ran. Time always tells a story. My father was shipped to England thru the RCAF and was a tail gunner. He ran 6 missions over the channel, and he peed in his pants more than once each time. Men only tell these things in time, when they're old and they have nothing left to prove. Yet my father still proclaims he would have ran if he had found a way. So do his brothers. These men are not cowards. All 4 are intelligent, successfully retired men.
Do we call this loyalty?
When I was a young teenager, my father got me enthused about rifles. Gun clubs. Skeet shooting with 12 gauge. I earned my "medals" for .22 target shooting. I earned 2 trophies for skeet shooting. Couldn't make the 3d. He took me up to the Gaspe when I was 15 with two of his friends for goose hunting (Antoinette knows where this is). I didn't really want to go, but I ended up there for 4 days. I only did this for my father. When we managed to flush birds, we of course all opened fire. It's really not fun hidng behind torn bushes for hours in a spot where you've located geese not far away who will eventually all lift and move, unarmed, to another spot. I killed my first goose with my first shot and I saw where it landed. After the slaughter had stopped, I ran to my bird and it was still alive. One of it's wings was bloody, it couldn't walk, and it just looked at me. I didn't want to shoot it again. Not this close. My dad had already told me that in an event such as this, you simply grab the goose's head, and twist it until it no longer moved. That's what I did. When we all got back together, I told my father I didn't want to do this anymore, that I wanted to go back home. My wish was denied of course, and I spent another 3 1/2 days aiming at least 10 feet behind geese instead of leading them. When we returned home, I told my father I would never fire a gun again. I haven't to this day. Is this called loyalty?
I'm self employed and have had to let people go for lack of loyalty. I'm not going to elaborate. I despise it. These are personal decisions, as well as many others, that haven't been dictated to me. Sometimes life isn't very glorious. There comes a time in your life when you have to learn about taking care of your own rump. The sooner you learn it, the better off you are. Friends will lie about loyalty for their own personal means. Employees will do the same for a paycheque. When it comes down to the last breath, anyone smart enough has their own agenda for themselves and will die with it. People will lie and deny rather than be taken down. It's human nature. It's normal.
Harry, I admire this post of yours, among others you've written. But I just can't see where the word loyalty fits in with the people of MB. Whatever anyone says or refuses to say, if it ever gets to that point, will all be out of personal interest only.
As I said, loyalty is a confusing word when you copy it out of the dictionary and paste it into real life.
Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 20, 2005 6:59 AM
I was thinking about LOYALTY again and thought about the place I grew up - Oak Ridge, Tn. This was where some of the atom bombs used in WWII were created and assembled. The folks (including my family) working for the govt. had to keep totally MUM about what was going on. Let me tell you, the truth was kept well-hidden. NOBODY talked about their jobs. If that can happen in a town employing a large number of people, the Mountain Brook kids can be persuaded to keep their mouths shut. After all, they like their cushy life and if they blab, maybe some of those perks get yanked by their folks. Just a thought.
Posted by: betsy at December 20, 2005 9:27 AM
I believe the loyalty the MBHS students are displaying is to their city. You must understand that Mountain Brook has a certain image they want all the the world to see. They don't want people to hear bad things about their city. ALl they want people to hear is how wonderful their city is, how affluent their city is, how great their schpp; system is, and how they are the home to very prominent business and politcal figures in Alabama.
They do not want people to hear that certain students who live in their very prominent, upper class city went to Aruba and partied hard to the point that the hotel doesn't want them back. They don't want people to hear that the students were doing drugs and drinking excessively and practicing promiscuous(spelling) behavior. If that got out then it would bea huge black eye to their perfect city and a huge embarrassment as well that their city isn't as perfect as they make it out to be.
These students aren't being loyal to Natalee they are being loyal to the city in trying to keep their misdeeds in Aruba out of the public eye.
That could explain why they don't want to talk, why their cameras and cellphones were taken, and why their aren't very many pictures of this trip available for public viewing. That could exxplain the Twittys determination to destroy Aruba since the peopel in Aruba know how these kids really acted and if it got out in the public view then as I said it would be a tremendous blow to the image of such a prominent city.
I live near Mountain Brook and I know how very important their image is. There is always some prominent family in the newspaper doing a good deed like donating to a charity or helping in other ways(of course if someone in my city were to do the samething, I can guarantee there wouldn't be coverage about it). There are always stories on fabulous parties in Mountain Brook and also their schools great record, etc. You never hear of anything bad coming out of Mountain Brook even though things do happen in the city just like any other city but they have this image they want to keep so they keep those bad happenings underwraps and never let it out.
So you can imagine how much Mountain Brook and its prominent citizens want to hide all the information about what happened in Aruba from the public.
I live in another prominent city in Alabama and it use to be the sameway. You should have seen the hysterics when something that was bad happened and it had a story in the newspaper. I have never seen so much anger about it nor have I seen so much done to hide it and make it look like the individual involved was lying about what happened. The story now with that victim's family is not going to prosecute the individuals involved in it(can we say payoff or threat).
In my opinion Mountain Brook is doing damage control and have a strong feeling that they are not very happy with the Twittys right now as they have brought this whole misadventure to the public eye and that just is not suppose to happen according to Mountain Brook law.
Posted by: Belle at December 20, 2005 9:49 AM
Oops I apologize for all the typeo's. It seems my mind was going faster than my fingers.
Posted by: Belle at December 20, 2005 9:50 AM
Question the kids from Mountain Brook? Sure. Why not? They have already given their statements. Might as well question them again. And, then, again. Then, maybe, again. That way, we will be busy doing something about this case. Nothing productive but we will be busy--much like the farmer who plows the same field again and again. They have already been questioned. Now, let's do something else. Surely this case seems to be stuck on stupid.
Posted by: Philip at December 20, 2005 11:31 AM
I would like to know where it has been documented that there have been recorded official statements taken from the MB students and adults who were along on the trip? Can you provide a link to that and not just that Beth or Jossy or some one "said it," but actual corrobated statements?
In reading at the Bush Haired Stranger site I find that they refer to the so-called chaperones as facilitators and those who were to keep the kids 'out of trouble' and that they collected the tickets and passports at the beginning of the trip. Has anything ever been documented as to Natalee's airline ticket and where it is or ended up? All airline tickets have numbers and I'm wondering if anyone has traced this to see if it was ever turned in, attempted to be changed, etc.? Also, I believe her mother stated that her passport was in her room; if true, why would a chaperone/facilitator have returned it to her room if Natalee was never back in that room after C&C? I would assume that an adult holding passports would not just lay it down in an empty room, but would only personally return it to its owner, wouldn't you think?
I think there are many things the MB people could clear up and why a recorded formal statement was not taken from each and every person the next day following her disappearance and not let everyone scatter to the wind is beyond me.
I certainly don't think Beth or anyone else from MB has the right to keep any evidence out of the hands of the investigators, whether it is cameras, phones, or being interviewed. If they are going to balk at being interviewed, have a court reporter present and document it, period! IMHO
Harry: Do you believe that more is going to come out soon? What is the significance of John Kelly not being included in the meetings on Friday?
Posted by: moey at December 20, 2005 1:27 PM
Maybe you should direct your post to the FBI. The way I hear it that have not done any interviewing, yet. Of course, we can cite some prior date (or can we?) that the FBI wandered into Mountain Brook and exchanged greetings. Apparently, the FBI's efforts, thus far, have not met the minimum criteria for an investigation.
The FBI has been asked to do it again, because they never did it right the first time. The words spoken from Aruba represent professional courtesy in an attempt to depolarize the investigation.
Alabamans should not even try and pretend that affluent persons in Mountain Brook, AL are not trying to derail the FBI's efforts. It is the loyalty of Mountain Brook affluence at work. Maybe you thought the FBI was just slow for not responding to the Aruban call for a re-investigation of the Mountain Brook students. They were not!
Posted by: harry at December 20, 2005 1:39 PM
As I mentioned above, John Kelly is the agent of Beth Twitty. He is not an independent observer, and he would have an agenda at the meeting. Let us also keep in mind that it was Alabama Congressman Bacchus would denied Beth Twitty representation at the meeting and not Aruba.
In my opinion, the case has been solved. Natalee is alive. She ran away. In January 2006, she will reappear. What we are observing now is a lot of damage control from the media.
Posted by: harry at December 20, 2005 1:52 PM
How do you think she got off the island; boat, plane, cargo ship??? Do you think she is in the US or a southern country??
Thanks for a great site. moey
Posted by: moey at December 20, 2005 1:56 PM
It seems Harry that you and I are on the same wave length in regards to damage control and such. A lot of people don't realize how important public image is too Mountain Brook. They don't realize that any misbehavior on the part of any citizen is quickly swept under the carpet before the public news can get ahold of it. In Mountain Brook it is all about image and nothing else.
My view is that Natalee was a trouble young lady. Can you imagine going through a parent's divorce just as you hit the magical age of 13 where everything suddenly becomes confusing and new. Can you imagine being moved from a less affluent city where you had friends you felt comfortable with into a proverbial snake pit where image is everything. I recall that it was hard enough dealing with all the changes that came with adolescence where image became more important than before. Can you imagine being moved into an affluent city where image is everything and you have to fit a certain mold to even have a few friends. Can you imagine dealing with a parent's new spouse in addition to all the other stuff.
I can see where Natalee could have become overwhelmed working so hard to fit in and to fit into that perfect image mold that the city and her parents were wanting her to be. Can you imagine having to listen to your mom and step father constantly telling you that you can do better or no your current friends you have are not acceptable that you have to have new more perfect image friends. Can you imagine going so far as to have your mom pick out your prom date(which was probably for image only). I know if I had to deal with all that I would have probably ran away myself as quickly as I could get away.
A lot of people said she was about to get away from her parents and be in college but even at college her parents would probably still control her and still emphasize this is the image you are suppose to represent and these are the classes you will take, this is the sorority you will join, etc. The University of Alabama is only an hour or so away from Mountain Brook so it would not be too hard for her parents to keep a hold on her.
Also, another thought what if she didn't want to go to U of A, what if she didn't want to be a doctor. We really don't know what Natalee really wanted because all we hear is what Beth said Natalee wanted. But yet this is the same woman who didn't know what her daughter's favorite foods were and such. My mom could tell anyone what my favorite things were without a hesitation.
That leads to wondering what kind of relationship did she really have with her family and step family. Was she truly happy with her new life in Mountain Brook like everyone said or was she sad and lonely because she missed her old life and her old friends.
Posted by: Belle at December 20, 2005 2:55 PM
BILL O’REILLY TRIES TO MAKE SUPPORT OF “BOYCOTT” “LEFT-WING, RIGHT-WING” ISSUE!!!
If there is one thing useful to have come out of this six months old, and counting, travesty of the Natalee Holloway “fiasco,”is how evident it has become, that Conservatives need a reputable, respectable News Channel on which to be able to voice their opinions, and from which to gather credible information, other than Rupert Murdoch’s “tabloid” Fox News, which as much lip service as it may do to “Conservative Values,” has sold its “journalistic soul to the devil,” and dragged its credibility, and integrity through the gutter, pandering Natalee’s disappearance, which no matter how you look at it is no more nor less than a “family tragedy,” making of it an unlikely “International Incident” which it is not, while ignoring or preempting other news and developments of far greater importance and implications to our future and that of the world, in order to devote the inordinate amount of time they have wasted on this farce!!!
If one tallies all the countless hours that Fox has devoted to interviewing Beth Twitty, the media maven, narcissistic, “limelight” addicted mother of Natalee Holloway, to only hear her once again spew all the old, stale false accusations, defamations, innuendos, half-truths, and outright lies with which she has been regaling audiences repeatedly for months now, and compare it to the amount of time given the coverage of the victims of the floods in India back in the summer, or devoted to the coverage of the three hurricanes that devastated the Gulf Coast of the United States, and New Orleans, or that given to covering the killer floods in the North East, or to the massive earthquake that hit Pakistan which killed tens of thousands, and other far more impacting news that have been ignored or neglected to keep this vengeful Beth Banshee in the spotlight, one would be appalled at the amount of air-time that has been lavished on this woman, compared to that given the coverage of what is only logical to assume are far more important developments than the fate of one miscreant, missing “Girl Gone Wild” in Aruba!!!
Imagine if Natalee Holloway had disappeared in May 2004, instead of May 2005!
Had Fox handled the reportage of Natalee's disappearance in the same manner they have , John Kerry would now be sitting in the White House, the Supreme Court would have been made even far more Left-leaning and "activist" than it has been (if that is even possible to imagine) with his appointments, First Lady Theresa Heinz would have told the “Clod-Hoppers” to go F**k themselves in "French," we would have already ran away with our troops from Iraq with our tail between our legs, in another Viet Nam-like “Glorious Defeat” with "President Kerry" leading the retreat, and an "Islamic Caliphate," encompassing all of what is now Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the Emirates, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, would be rising, ready to wage their "Jihad" with their nuclear weapons against us!!!!
And then some people ask me why do I denounce the idiocy of continuing to focus on this Beth "soap opera" like a bunch of dolts, instead of addressing far mor pressing matters?!?! Look at the President's approval "ratings," and all the barrages the Democrats have unleashed viciously at his Administration, while his "supporters" drink "Beth Kool-Aid" and "drool" watching Beth moan on TV!!!
I have often warned that not the most conniving, crafty, and underhanded left-wing demagogue could have ever devised a more diabolical, and effective way of "diverting" the attention of that very same "Base" that brought President Bush victory last November, and keep them "lulled" like the sailors of Odysseus in the "Lotus Isles," than this Natalee Holloway/Beth
"melodrama," and no New York Times, or CNN would have been more dedicated to "propagating" it for the undermining of "Conservatives," than Fox has managed to do for no greater "altruistic" purposes than "ratings!" It is a disgrace!!!
Contrary to every other reportage on the internet, the Aruban newspapers, and even in our own press, for the last week Greta Van Susteren has stubbornly been holding the fort on behalf of Beth’s lies and spins, such as when she “gloriously” announced that Aruban Chief Prosecutor Karen Janssen was being taken off the case, which has turned out not to be true! So much for her asking the “real questions” which she has never done to this woman Beth! Can you even ever imagine Greta asking Beth if Natalee might not have ran away because she was pregnant, when Beth’s latest sexual fantasy consists of reliving in her mind all the sordid details of her daughter being ravaged in a “Menage a Quatre” by Joran and the Kalpoe brothers?!?! I don’t see it happening any time soon...well at least not until the next Ice Age!!!
And now, Bill O’Reilly, of all people, in his December 19th “Factor” show, has taken the Natalee Holloway story, the story that as Neil Gabler so appropriately put it months ago, “keeps on giving,” one step further, and by appending it to his on-going feud with the Editors of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution with whom he’s had a bone to pick ever since they dropped his Syndicated Column from the newspaper, has made of it a “Left wing, Right wing” issue of all things, since the Atlanta Journal-Constitution had the “audacity” of denouncing Governor Purdue’s “Good Ole’ Boys” politics of jumping on the “Boycott Aruba” bandwagon, along with his two other Southern, inbred, trailer-park counterparts, trying to bully the people of Aruba into submission to every whim of this Beth witch, penalizing the innocent population of Aruba in the process, the same to which ironically enough, ungrateful Beth owes so much hospitality, support, and assistance in her hour of need, and that she has so direly re-payed with so much evil will, defamation and scorn!!!
So, what now Mr. O’Reilly? If we do not support Beth’s call for this immoral “boycott,” which Congressman’s Bacchus latest findings concerning “how impressed he was about the “tremendous resources Aruban authorities have devoted to the case” invalidates, that means that I am a “Flaming Liberal”?!?!
Well, you are wrong Mr. O, I am a Conservative, and very proud of it, but I also see how our Conservative base is kept deluded with this fracas, while the Democrats slowly but surely do not miss one single opportunity to advance their agenda!!!
The President, his Administration, the War on Terror, his Supreme Court Nominee, are all under constant, vicious, attack from every corner, but who gives a damn, Beth Twitty is just coming on, on Fox!!!
And here I am siding with a Periodical with whose Editorial positions I for the most part strongly disagree, because O’Reilly made of the “Holloway farce” a “political issue!” I would have to say that it is not only politics, but also TRUTH that sometimes makes “strange bed-fellows!”
In the words of First Amendment framer James Madison: "A well-instructed people alone can be permanently a free people." Knowing all there is to know about Natalee and Beth will hardly contribute to maintaining our freedom!!!
I often feel like the "voice of one crying in the desert," since no one heeds! Let us hope that this Beth idiocy doesn't unleash upon us more "dire" consequences than it already has, and we don't find ourselves watching "Beth interviews on Greta," the day the North Koreans strike and nuke Anchorage or Seattle, while we "drool-on” watching, “mesmerized” by the wails of the Banshee!!!
We desperately need a reputable Conservative News channel that reports news responsibly, with journalistic integrity, and is not trying to compete with “The National Enquirer” for first place! The hell with “Faux News”!!!
Posted by: Althor at December 20, 2005 3:09 PM
Our blog has explored all the options of leaving Aruba. If Natalee left on her own accord, then I suspect that she employed a plane or a sailboat.
The plane, attracting most speculation, is the jet that brought Beth Twitty to Aruba. I discussed this plane in a few past editorials with my hoodwink scenario.
A 35-foot sloop (sailboat), equipped with a spinnaker, could be sailed across an ocean. Also, a sailboat is one of the easiest ways to enter a country undetected. When sailboats are stopped for inspections, the primary concern is drugs. Someone speaking American English would be invisible to the inspectors.
I encourage you to peruse our blog. Most of the answers to your questions will be found there.
Posted by: harry at December 20, 2005 3:20 PM
It's hard for me to believe that at this very moment many thousands of people in New Orleans are still the victim awating for FEMA to help. All FOX and Dr. Phill can do is keep picking on Aruba. Is it true that americans are real racist. Do they prefer to look out for one blond american instead of helping a couple of thousand blacks???
Posted by: Albert at December 20, 2005 3:31 PM
Great post Althor - some times you do run on but not this time - I am a Conservative and supported President Bush - and until the Holloway case I always thought Fox was my channel for news - if there is one thing I have learned since mid June is that Fox news is really nothing more than a ratings grabber not really caring anything about the Truth at all. Before I would have thought Greta was a whole lot more credible than the very disgraceful Nancy on CNN but on this story, not so - in fact where Nancy seems to have finally moved on Greta seems STUCK ON STUPID - no one has become more annoying and less credible. For an anntorney she does not even try to give the curtosy of understanding the Aruban legal system at all - shame on her. And to give that totally annoying Beth the megaphone to nightly spew her lies and misrepresentations is so morally and legally wrong - when Natalee walks out into the big ole world in 2006 I hope the Kalpoes and the Van der sloots are represented by a great big legal firm and they own Fox and Greta along with Dr. Phil. So Althor your post is absolutely true - Conservatives do not all think like the pathetic way On the Record and ORielly have portrayed this case - and become a broken record for lies and accusations!!
Posted by: Jan at December 20, 2005 3:32 PM
Do you remember the big media circus in the O.J. Simpson and Micheal jackson case? Please give your opinion...Are we just covering the rich people in the u.s. media. Poor people can go to hell?
Posted by: albert at December 20, 2005 3:51 PM
Harry, I hope more than anything you are right and that Natalee is alive. The best senerio would be if Natalee is indeed pregnant and in hiding then she is safe somewhere, not drug addicted in slavery in an unknown country. I would like to make one comment about the MBK. I can only speak for one student who I know that was on the trip. This kid was contacted by an Aruban official, a Mr Croes, can't remember first name, maybe Rudy, a few days after trip. My friend talked to Mr Croes at least 6 different times within the first few days and then talked to the FBI at least that many times as well. Maybe the other 123 students have been uncooperative, I don't know, but I do know of one that did everything possible to give all the information possible. It will be interesting to see how quickly things get rolling to have these kids interviewed. Most are now away from Birmingham in college. It would certainly be alot easier to get answers while many are home for the holidays.
Posted by: jewels at December 20, 2005 4:04 PM
I am not so certain if it is truly a racists or rich/poor dilemma. If you are rich, you can buy political interference. However, if your family is well connected, you can influence the same outcome.
The issue in New Orleans is different from the Natalee Holloway case, as 67% of the population in New Orleans was Black-American. Only 8% of the population remained in New Orleans, following the disaster. Obviously, a large majority of the Black-Americans escaped. The leadership in New Orleans was Black-American. The media portrayed the situations as race issue; however, it was mostly an issue of those with transportation and those without transportation. Most New Orleans residents, regardless of race, escaped.
Politicians, for the most part, will support issues that are integral to their political survival. Given the data on crime in Alabama, it would be hard to conceive of any other motive for Governor Riley's backing of a boycott of Aruba. Governor Huckabee is running for the office of President of the United states. The frenzy of the Natalee Holloway case could provide him support that he otherwise could not attract. Governor Purdue may be acting on the close relationship to Governor Riley, or he may be concerned about his airports possibly being used to transport Natalee Holloway. Another possibility would be an interstate concession on a project by Governor Riley in return for Governor Purdue's support. Whatever the case, the current politicians behind the boycott are doing so for political reasons. And, I suspect that they are doing other things to derail the investigation into the Mountain Brook teens for precisely those same aspirations.
In Natalee's case, I believe political support has spoken louder than money or race.
Posted by: harry at December 20, 2005 5:19 PM
Reading Albert about New Orleans:
Tonight on Dutch Nova-TV there was a twenty minutes overview with up to date interviews as how the situation in New Orleans is at this moment and how the thousands of black people are treated by their local- and federal authorities. No house, no job, lost everything, not allowed to go back where they used to live and nobody cares.
Are you really a Conservative Althor? Your government is!
Posted by: letstalk at December 20, 2005 6:35 PM
Still With Your Head Cut Off..............
Soon Jorans Head Will Be Up His Ass ...........
Posted by: Shazzbot at December 20, 2005 7:14 PM
Hey Jim Hanson .......
To Bad You Did'nt Shoot Yourself With That Gun.
You Are A Flaming IDIOT ..............
Posted by: Shazzbot at December 20, 2005 7:19 PM
Actually Letstalk, the City, and State Government in New Orleans and Louisiana are run by "Liberal Democrats," and Governor Katheleen Blanco's playing "Partisan politics" with Washington on the first days after Katrina, was the greatest set-back to timely relief efforts, just ask the Red Cross Volunteers she would not allow into the area, to which of course you have to add FEMA's shortcomings, along with Mayor Nagin not having had a clue as to how to handle the situation, and packing people like rats without enough food and water into the Astrodome, while he let a whole fleet of school buses get swamped and ruined by the rising waters instead of using them to get the people out of the City saving the buses to boot, but sat waiting for the "Proverbial Mana" to fall from the heavens to resolve his problems, and to top it all, the"Commission" that "oversaw" the neglected "maintenance" and "upgrading" of the Levees consisted of "Political Appointees" mostly "Democrats," and it now appears that most of the Federal Grants allocated yearly to maintain and upgrade the Levees, were spent yearly on "pork" somewhere else in the State!!!
So, I'm sorry Letstalk, but those are not "my" Conservatives, and neither are the publicity hungry, backwater, "provincial" Governors that are supporting Beth's infamous "boycott" fiasco, or the Mountain Brook "Elitist" Yahoos!!! These are not my "Conservatives"!!!
Posted by: Althor at December 20, 2005 8:25 PM
Oh Boy this really hurts not having good news! Someway somehow this anger has to go out, other wise you will be suffocated.
As a matter of the fact, Aruba only wants to clear his name. That is the reason I really wish that the FBI, this time to make a good job. Internationally speaking it is ridiculous that they were missing this and that.
Posted by: antoinette at December 20, 2005 9:33 PM
Many times wandering posters enter our site and make ridiculous comments in an attempt to ridicule our followers. One such comment runs similar to "...running around like a chicken with his/her head cutoff ...." I have found this comment written quite often. Well, the posters are in luck. I was raised on a gentleman farm that just happen to have some chickens, and I had the opportunity to observe the slaughtering process in the fall.
It is true that when chicken realize that they will be slaughtered, they do run around a bit, cackling aloud. However, the running ceases, as does the cackling, as soon as they have been decapitated. Some of the birds make an effort to stand, but having their head absent prevents them from balancing. Sometimes, the birds manage to stand, but then they fall down, immediately. They never run around with their heads cut off.
I just thought I would add some reality to some of the commentary intended to ridicule our posters. Sometimes knowing what you are talking about goes a long way in making a point ... even for humor.
Posted by: harry at December 20, 2005 9:50 PM
Belle, I heard Jug say on one of the cable shows that he & Beth dated for 8 years before they married and they've been married a little over 5 years. So Natalee knew him most of her life before she disappeared. Her parents divorce happened a long time before her move to Mountain Brook. I'm sure she was well over it by then.
Posted by: punkingale at December 20, 2005 10:51 PM
Harry - Chickens do indeed run around with their heads off right after they are killed!
When I was a little girl I spent a good bit of time on my grandparent's farm. My grandmother used to kill hens and dress them. She would grab them by their head and shake them around - break their necks - and sometimes their heads would pop off. I know, sounds gruesome, but that's the way they did it. They would run around in random pattern, with our without head - for what seemed like a long time to me then. But I was young so probably was a minute or two. I was totally fascinated and remember it vividly. This is where the expression came from too. They are non directional, floundering and running about.
Maybe it is the technique for killing them this way versus the way the chickens were killed that you watched that made the difference in whether they ran around or not. They sure do do it though.
Posted by: shonane at December 21, 2005 12:21 AM
Your method does not cut off their heads. Your method wrings their necks, only. The phrase "run around like a chicken with its head cut off" insists that the head be cut off, as in decapitated.
All I can attest to is that no New Hampshire chickens that I witnessed ever ran around after we decapitated them. They just tried to stand and fell down. Maybe my French ancestors were better at the art of decapitation. They did have credentials.
Posted by: harry at December 21, 2005 2:53 AM
Why did the chicken cross the road? Because JVDS and K1, K2 dropped it off at 2AM. Why did the chicken cross the road ? Because JVDS left it at the beach at 3AM. Why did the chicken NOT cross the road? Because it "lost" it's tennis shoes at the beach.Who were the last ones seen with the chicken? Why was the chicken never seen again?
Posted by: kap at December 21, 2005 9:22 AM
What if the chicken ran away from Clolonel "Beth Sanders" to go lay her egg, because she was affraid she'd be "Kentucky Fried" (or "Alabamy Fried" for that matter), for not wishing to be properly served on a "platter with all the fixins' a la Mountain Brook"?!?! Isn't that possible???
The "Blame J2k regardless, lynch them because Beth says so" argument is getting old!!! Why don't you stop drinking your "Beth laced, poison Kool Aid," and try to look at all the possibilities from other angles??? Those with Beth's "Seal of Approval" have given no results so far!!!
And stop playing the "Beth Chicken Little Boycott Game" claiming that "Aruba is falling down"!!! Tourism is up 7%!!! (I guess chickens must like all the "pecking," and the "peckers" in Aruba! LOL!)
Posted by: Althor at December 21, 2005 10:21 AM
Hey Jim Hanson .......
To Bad You Did'nt Shoot Yourself With That Gun.
You Are A Flaming IDIOT ..............
Posted by: Shazzbot at December 20, 2005 07:19 PM
Nice to see you back shazzbot. When you call someone an idiot, it's usually appropriate to explain why you feel they're an idiot.
After reading a few of your earlier posts, as well as this one, it's easy to tell that you don't do things appropriately. You simply speak without thinking. In my estimation, that now way to go through life. Good luck!
Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 22, 2005 3:45 AM
Colonel Sanders did it!!!! It was FOWL play !!!!:>)
Posted by: kurt at December 31, 2005 1:36 AM
Articles Related to Natalee Holloway:
- HarryTho 12/19 Natalee Holloway Commentary - Dec 19, 2005