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December 15, 2005

HarryTho 12/15 Natalee Holloway Commentary

Topics: Natalee Holloway

This evening we will preview the upcoming meeting between the Aruban delegation and Congressman Bacchus. Although much has been promoted about the congressman's success at getting the Arubans to brief him on the status of the investigation into Natalee Holloway's disappearance, this alleged success seems tainted with recent announcements from the Aruban media and representatives.

First, the news of a letter, alleged authored by Natalee Holloway, is revealed by Steve Cohen, spokesperson for the Aruban government. In the letter, the author indicates that she ran away and that she was pregnant. Clearly, a runaway scenario contradicts the kidnapping suspicions of the Aruban prosecution. The fact that the author claims to be Natalee and alive contradicts the Aruban claims of a murder. The two more serious suspicions of the Aruban prosecution dissipate away, if the letter proves authentic.

Second, Police Chief Dompig reveals a less than cordial aspect of the Mountain Brook teens' demeanor while in Aruba. Declarations are revealed contradicting many of the positions of the Mountain Brook teens. Some of these declarations conflict adversely with actions taken by the Aruban police.

Third, Paulus van der Sloot has filed for damages for wrongful prosecution and incarceration. Having been cleared from the case, his damages are being adjudicated. It would appear that Paulus was incarcerated without the minimum evidence required.

Fourth, an ultimatum was delivered to the chief prosecutor by the Aruban Attorney General to produce some progress in the case within 60 days. The exact timing of that ultimatum is uncertain; however, it is believed to have been issued some 60 days or so ago. A rumor has surfaced that the chief prosecutor will be assigned to her regular duties, because of lack of evidence in the disappearance case of Natalee Holloway.

Fifth, an oversight prosecutor from Curacao has been reviewing each page of the 12,000 documents compiled in the case. To date, no new evidence or leads have surfaced, other than the alleged Natalee letter.

Sixth, the infamous Skeeter tapes were determined to manipulated by the Dutch Forensic Institute (DFI). The actual content on the tapes support the prior testimonies of the three suspects.

Seventh, special investigators from the Netherlands have been flown in to Aruba in order close out the case, as they put it.

So, we have to ask: why is Congressman Bacchus meeting with the Aruban delegation, if it is their intention to close out the case for lack of leads?

At this meeting, Congressman Bacchus has invited (a tender way to put it) two district attorneys from the Alabama counties with cognizance over Mountain Brook. Does the congressman believe that his knowledge of police investigations is so insufficient as to require the presence of two district attorneys? I do not think so. Does the presence of the two district attorneys signal the congressman's intention to rake the Aruban delegation over the coals, so to speak? I do not think so.

It is my belief that upon being presented the in-depth, no-holds-barred brief, the Aruban delegation will turn the investigation over to the district attorneys under the direction of Congressman Bacchus. A 30-day turn over will be allocated in order to familiarize the district attorneys with the case and the contents of the documentation in the case files. Upon which time, the case will be entered into the cold case files in Aruba.

The timing is appropriate with the closing of the congressional session and the commencement of the holiday season.

After the holiday season, the case will swing into its Alabama phase, headed by the two district attorneys. Aruba will maintain a supporting role while the Alabama phase runs its route.

Leaving commentary and moving over to a cable news item, Greta of Fox News interviewed Tito Lacle. Tito reports that the delegation is coming to review the case with Congressman Bacchus. He refers to the delegation as a strategic committee.

Members include Richard Simms, Steve Cohen and Arlene Ellis-Schipper. This is in contrary to reports from Aruba Truth. Tito implies that the core information of the investigation will not be released to the congressman. Once again, this is contrary to Steve Cohen's comments. When Tito and Greta cease talking they concluded that what is coming from an Aruba is a Chamber of Commerce.

When the session ends, Tito sent a last minute email to Greta and corrected his report to include that Arlene Ellis-Schipper will be here with a representative from the police force. This report seems more in line with what Steve Cohen reported on MSNBC News a few days ago. It appears that Greta is out of the information loop.

Greta, once again, reminded her audience that she has an open invitation for the Aruban police to come on her show. She reports that they do not respond to her invitation.

Greta held her council of Bernie Grimm, Jim Hammer and Ted Williams.

Bernie discounts Tito's initial report as Chamber of Commerce goodwill greeting call. He feels a business coalition would do nothing for the case.

Ted Williams calls the meeting a case of smoke and mirrors. He feels the boycott has spooked the business community in Aruba.

Jim Hammer jumped on the Chamber of Commerce delegation. He detests the attack on Beth Twitty, and he talks of the Attorney General blocking communication with the media.

Ted Williams closed with "we have to remember that there is no evidence in the case, so there is nothing to report."

Comment: I believe it is clear that Greta and Fox News have been left out in the cold. No one in the know in Aruba is talking to them. This Tito report runs counter to everything Steve Cohen has been saying.

Posted for HarryTho

Posted by Richard at December 15, 2005 8:50 PM

Harry, As usual you make a lot of sense - I certainly do not see this being what the Bethites think it will be - apeasing the boycott - I really do not see how it can be anything but going inot cold case mode down in Aruba - but what I dont like is how this will perpetuate this silly boycott which I see another good ole stupid southern boy gov from Georgia has joined - I relly want the truth to come out and Natalee declared a runaway and make the MB fab 7 squirm!

Posted by: Jan at December 15, 2005 10:42 PM

Dear Harry,

I consider your conjecture plausible, but there is something I don't fully understand. I don't envision what crime may have happened falling into jurisdiction of Alabaman rather than federal authorities. And even when we conject what it might be, still, I would think ALE would insist that the FBI takes part in meeting purpose of which is a case transfer.

On the other hand, it is possible that the FBI is to participate in the meeting, which fact is just not being announced to media. However, if not, I don't think a case will be transfered at this point.

Posted by: George at December 15, 2005 10:52 PM

"It would appear that Paulus was incarcerated without the minimum evidence required."

That is, IMO, the understatement of the year.

Again, IMO, turning the case over to the Alabama law enforcement community for continuation is an oxymoron: I don't think that any laws have been broken in Alabama; the kids, their families and the Twittys are all well-connected and influential people in a backwoods state noted for corruption; and the South joyfully supports donation scams every Sunday.

I hope you can help bring closure, Harry, but it's hard to fight City Hall. Best regards.

Posted by: Dayo Gould at December 15, 2005 10:52 PM

To All:

Georgia's entry into the boycott may be just symbolic. On the other hand, the Governor of Georgia may be concerned about his state's involvement in Natalee's disappearance, as the private jet that took Beth Twitty to Aruba and Virginia Page from Aruba, I believe, tookoff and landed in Georgia.

From tonight's Greta telecast, it is only too clear that she has been blackballed by the Aruban authorities. It might even be the case that she is being fed incorrect information. Tito Lacle, this evening, had to send an email to correct what he reported to her on the telecast.

As for the FBI, I would be surprised if the FBI did not attend in some manner this meeting or meet separately with the Aruban officials in Washington, DC. I have received no solid indication that the meeting will be anything other than what Steve Cohen reported a few days ago: an in-depth, no-holds-barred meeting.

What we know is that the Aruban authorities desire to interview the Mountain Brook students. So far, no attempt has been made to effectuate those interviews. I do not see how those interviews can happen without FBI involvement. To me, the meeting with Congressman Bacchus is the prelude to the FBI conducting those interviews. With no remaining leads in Aruba, it follows that the only investigation remaining lies within the USA. Unless everyone just agrees to walk away from the case, the FBI will have to step up to the plate. The district attorneys will be there to probe and prepare for their involvement in the potential prosecution of the case.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 15, 2005 11:22 PM

Harry,

Well, looks like we are on same page here, but for any case I will clarify.

1. IF Alabamsn DA's wanted to interview anyone in Alabama, participation any outside agency (e.g. FBI) would be unnecessary. Thus I take your statement "I do not see how those interviews can happen without FBI involvement" to mean that these DA's needs "some encourangement"; if so, I concur.

2. Any prima facie crime that may have been committed is in either Aruban or federal jurisdiction. What may have happened for Alabaman DA's to prosecute? Well, let me put an example - a sexual misconduct in Alabama (note that Alabama has wider definition of criminal sexual misconduct than most other states, it includes e.g. oral sex between unmarried individuals and any sex between step-parents and stepchilds)...

Posted by: George at December 15, 2005 11:37 PM

Dear George:

The interviews with respect to the case of Natalee's disappearance would come under the jurisdiction of the FBI and not the local authorities. Of course, I cannot rule out some form of cooperation amongst local, state and federal investigators.

The two DAs raise some interesting questions. The first and foremost may be: What does Congressman Bacchus know that we do not? I will refrain from even attempting a response. However, I doubt those two DAs are included for merely advisory or comfort capacity.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 15, 2005 11:55 PM

Why is Jim Hammer so upset about comments directed towards Beth Twitty, when Beth Twitty has been allowed to lie about this case on tabloid shows and slander the Aruban ALE and authorities from day one? Doesn't Mr Hammer realize that when you shove someone, they generally shove back?

I feel very confident that part of the Aruban agenda this weekend will be discussing a way to keep Beth Twitty and her foundation off the airwaves and away from this case. After all, she HAS interfered with it. Her clan has created false evidence with the Dr Phil tape that was doctored and aired to the public. She has made many bizarre statements, claiming she has evidence to back them up but "doesn't have the evidence with her."

I personally feel she should be taken out of the equation so she can simply keep in touch with her lawyer for any updates on the case.

I think the Arubans have a few surprises up their sleeves for tommorrows initial meeting.

Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 16, 2005 1:34 AM

Harry:
Since the beginning of this case, I've had a gut feeling that Natalee was either kidnapped off the beach where Joran left her, or she went for a swim and got caught in the undertow and drown. While my mind is not closed to other theories, I don't believe the three suspects had anything to do with her disappearance. Nor do I hold out much hope that she is alive and living in America. I would like to believe that she is, and, I'll admit it is entirely possible given the fact that there is no evidence she died on that island, it just seems a little too optimistic.
I sincerely hope that you're right and I'm wrong.

Posted by: Max at December 16, 2005 2:07 AM

Jim:
Hammer really get to me too. I don't think even he believe half of the garbage he spouts on Greta's show.

Posted by: Max at December 16, 2005 2:10 AM

To All:

The Bushy Haired Stranger (TBHS) site has some interesting takes on the puposes of the Alabama district attorneys attending the meeting in Washington, DC.

http://www.rjames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1130&page=1&pp=10

In contradistinction to whatever Greta has been muttering on her show, Aruban police officials are represented in this delegation. After reading the TBHS blog's ideas, this meeting is becoming more and more like a formal turnover or the commencement of USA involvement.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 16, 2005 5:26 AM

just a prayer

Dear Lord,
Sometimes the challenges you give us puzzle us
But now you have given us a big challenge
This challenge is dividing friends,
maybe even nations.
I am confident we will all face these challenges
and bring them to a good ending.
I am also confident that Natalee is in your good care, wether she is alive or in heaven now.
I only ask for your forgiveness about the fact that in stead off searching for Natalee we tend to fight amongst ourselves.
Please give strenght an wisdom to the people in Aruba, The United States and The Netherlands.
Thank you, Lord!


Every now and then I feel like in all our discussions we forget one person. So every now and then I'd like to post a little reminder.
Please people, wether she is alive (which a think and hope for) or has passed on: Natalee Holloway needs our help. Maybe it is also the Christmas season that brings on this sentiment. When all this is over and the mystery is solved, please find it in your hearts to forgive those who got it wrong. I know this is maybe hard for some, but please find it in your hearts to even forgive people like Nancy Grace, Greta van Susteren, Phil McGraw, etc...

From Holland with Love,
Wishing you all a very merry Christmas
And a Happy New Year


Also_Dutch

Posted by: Also_Dutch at December 16, 2005 8:06 AM

Well said Max...........

Posted by: Shivas at December 16, 2005 9:53 AM

Thank you, Also_Dutch. That is a wonderful post!

Posted by: np at December 16, 2005 9:56 AM

Thanks Harry! Great job, as always. It will be interesting how all this DC stuff shakes out.

Regards,

Bigfish

Posted by: Bigfish at December 16, 2005 10:05 AM

what next??? she had a sex change?

better yet NH sonogram shows she is having triplets!!

Posted by: walkytalky at December 16, 2005 12:52 PM

Harry: Do you know what is going on over at Riehl World? Only old dates come up, nothing current??? Thanks. Moey

Posted by: moey at December 16, 2005 1:23 PM

JossyM's paper is covering your blog!
http://www.diarioaruba.com/diabierna/noticia/news6.html

Posted by: JennyM at December 16, 2005 2:30 PM

Dear JennyM:

Thank you!

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 16, 2005 3:05 PM

Harry,

The following is translation of Diario article found at some close forum:

"According to Internet Blog
There is a big chance that Natalee Holloway was pregnant when she was in Aruba

12/16/2005

ORANJESTAD(AAN): Recently, on one of the ‘blogs’ on the Internet, where people around the world discuss the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, there was an interesting discussion about this case.

They started to discuss the reason that Natalee could have decided to disappear. Those on that blog, assumed for a moment that Natalee is not dead and that she decided to run away. According to the person who runs the blog, there are indications that Natalee was pregnant and under stress because of her pregnancy.

He/she said that if one compared a picture of Natalee when she went to the prom on the 3rd of May to the photo of Natalee when she was here in Aruba, one can see that she is around 10% heavier than when she was in the US.

This does not necessarily signify that she was pregnant, but the indications are strong that this was the case, and according to that person, the young American was between 4 and 5 months pregnant.

Another indication that she was pregnant is that Joran said that Natalee was hysterical when on the beach at the Marriott, which could be a sign that this is the case and because of this she wanted to remain on the beach and not go back to the Holiday Inn.

According to the person from the blog, it is very regrettable that Natalee’s family have done everything in their power so that no one can see the pictures of the students in the time they were in Aruba so that they cannot comment much on what they did in Aruba. He/she continues to say that there could be some of the students who know that Natalee was indeed expecting a child and by who.

The person continues to say that probably Natalee’s classmates could have helped her escape and get back to the US, in a hidden manner, due to the shame and scandal that it would be for Natalee and the father of her supposed child, when the families found out.

The question remains, how Natalee and her friends could have succeeded in getting Natalee out of Aruba, without the help of locals. Because if it is indeed the case that Natalee left Aruba alive, it is difficult to believe that no one in Aruba knows about it.

If Natalee left Aruba, it is also difficult to believe that the three suspects, Deepak, Satish and Joran are aware of this, because it is not logical that three youngsters who love to go out and enjoy life will sacrifice their freedom for so long, for a person they hardly knew.

What does make this matter very interesting is that this is not the first time that a possible Natalee Holloway pregnancy has been spoken about. There have been different versions circulating, where at one time it was spoken about a doctor who said to Natalee approached him about an abortion.

Another version says that Natalee is pregnant by a person very close to her mother, and that she will be giving birth in January and that after this, she will come forward to clear everything up.

Now there is the latest version which appears on a blog that says that when Natalee came to Aruba, she was 4 to 5 months pregnant. Like they say: where there’s smoke there’s fire.

Looking at how many times a possible pregnancy of Natalee Holloway has been mentioned, perhaps this is the truth. One thing is for sure, if this is true and Natalee came forward, this would be good news for Aruba in what relates to the boycott."

Posted by: George at December 16, 2005 3:36 PM

Thank you, George!

If this is a fairly accurate translation, then Jossy was kind to us. Based on the way that I have treated him in the blog, I would have doubted that he would be so compassionate. I understand why he does not quote us because of our adverse treatment of him and his paper in the past.

What is good news is how he connected other rumors, unknown to us, into our theory. Actually, I have to agree with him (Something I thought I would never do!). There is something to this pregnancy scenario. For most of Aruba, I suspect that it will be good news.

May a warm tropical breeze embrace you,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 16, 2005 4:18 PM

Posted by: walkytalky at December 16, 2005 12:52 PM

Harry: Do you know what is going on over at Riehl World? Only old dates come up, nothing current??? Thanks. Moey

I emailed Dan and he sent me this link to what's happening:
http://www.sixapart.com/typepad/news/2005/12/current_issues.html

Posted by: justcurious at December 16, 2005 4:44 PM

Harry, I visited that link to the discussion on the BHS site .... here is an interesting little statement (I've omitted his/her initials):

"WTF? Why would the DAs from the two counties which include Mtn Brook and Birmingham be going along to this meeting? Even more to the point, how is it that Beth doesn't appear to be attending this little soiree?"

This is a good example of some of the mentality out there. Why in the world do some people feel that Beth Twitty has any business attending this meeting? I'll tell you why .. they feel that Beth is an integral and legal component in this investigation. Beth Twitty is simply the mother of a missing child - Nothing more. She has no police credentials. She never took the Bar exam. She is a teacher, a wife and a mother. She has no more business being a part in this investigation than >I

What this amounts to is this: Beth Twitty has overstepped her boundaries within this case. One does not need to be a police detective nor a lawyer to plainly see that this woman must be somehow removed from this case and ordered not to make statements to the press about it. Until she is, this investigation will never BE an investigation. She has virtually postponed progress in this investigation to the point that it is now, and has been for months, nothing more than a freak circus between the US media and the Aruban authorities. We all know very well that the Arubans have had enough of Beth. Why? Simply because Beth Twitty can't take "No" for an answer.

The ALE has had to put up with Beth stating on US tabloid shows that she's seen documents that don't exist. This will be plainly shown at these talks. The ALE has had to put up with degrading remarks about their performance in this investigation. The Aruban people themselves have been putting up with incredible insults from internet blogs.

How was the ALE supposed to conduct an investigation to 100% capacity with all this going on via the Twitty Foundation?

I, as well as many others, are 100% convinced that this very subject will be disucced in depth at these talks. In other words, the ALE has had the bun with the BT Media Foundation. They know this case can't continue with Beth Twitty in the picture.

Harry, another poster at the BHS site mentioned that he "couldn't wait to see how Beth Twitty reacts when she's briefed about these talks". You of course see what I mean ... this is no longer a case, it's simply a Media three ring circus, with Beth Twitty being the main event.

Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 16, 2005 5:02 PM

What is the BHS site? Sorry, I'm not familiar with it, I don't think. Thanks.

Posted by: moey at December 16, 2005 5:15 PM

Dear Jim:

I feel the group over at The Bushy Haired Stranger site is being sarcastic. They are not many Beth Twitty supporters over there.

The second comment stabs at Congressman Bacchus as being a snitch for Beth Twitty.

Sometimes, you have to allow a little acclimatization, before you can accurately interpret a group's comments.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 16, 2005 5:23 PM

she had a sex change?

Posted by: walkytalky at December 16, 2005 12:52 PM

What is the BHS site?

Posted by: moey at December 16, 2005 05:15 PM

http://rjames.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-1119.html

Posted by: George at December 16, 2005 5:27 PM

Article in Birmingham paper about today's mtg

Bachus says 14 investigators working on Holloway case
Aruban authorities have 14 full-time investigators working on the Natalee Holloway case, and there are no plans to end the investigation, Rep. Spencer Bachus said Friday after meeting with several Aruban officials in Washington.

“Their intention going forward .¤.¤. is not to shut this case down but to continue to pursue it vigorously,” said Bachus, R-Vestavia Hills. “They do not consider it a closed case, nor do they consider that they have a dead end. They continue to develop information and pursue leads.”

For example, Aruban police restated their desire to further interview Mountain Brook teenagers who were with Holloway on the Aruban vacation in May, when she disappeared. Bachus said they should cooperate.

Bachus, who has been one of many critics of the Aruban-led investigation, said the Aruban investigators were professional and forthright and are using extensive resources to find out what happened.

“I do feel better about the investigation after meeting with them,” Bachus said. The Aruban delegation, including Aruban Deputy Police Chief Dolf Richardson, also met Friday with the FBI.

No one from Holloway’s family was involved in the meeting.
Mary Orndorff

http://www.al.com/birminghamnews/breaking/index.ssf?/mtlogs/bama_bhamnews_break/archives/2005_12.html#100225

Posted by: np at December 16, 2005 5:55 PM

Diario has some commented upon your theory

Here is a link to the translated article.

p073.ezboard.com/ftheunusualsuspectsfrm7.showMessage?topicID=493.topic

Posted by: Dayo Gould at December 16, 2005 6:32 PM

I'll try again

Diario has comments on your theory and has added some filler of their own.

here is the link

p073.ezboard.com/ftheunusualsuspectsfrm7.showMessage?topicID=493.topic

Posted by: Dayo Gould at December 16, 2005 6:34 PM

Posted by: dayo gould at December 16, 2005 6:36 PM

Oh yeah, she's pregnant. Where is the proof? Can you open your mind and realize without all the theories that she was last seen with the 3 guys. That does speak to the truth. Also out of Joran's own mouth he said I will tell you what happened when I get ready.

All those wild ideas here, get real. Some of you need a reality check. Its sounds like some here have mental disturbuances too!

Posted by: Allan Kluttz at December 16, 2005 7:34 PM

I don't think I'm off base here with this post. This initial meeting being discussed here involves the boycott on Aruba travel.

I was looking through the yellow pages this afternoon for something unrelated to what I am about to tell you and something dawned on me after I had found what I was seeking. I thought I would call some travel agents and ask each one of them a few quick questions, if they would agree. I asked all of them the same 3 questions. The facts and statistics they gave me were all so extremely close to being identical, I felt no need to call any more than the 3 of the many largest travel agencies that I did contact.

Firstly, I explained quickly that I just a few quick questions to ask about travelling to Aruba. (By the way, these Agents are in Western Canada, but the location and answers I received still have some bearing on this boycott. You will see why). The three questions I asked all of them were as follows:

1) Has travel to Aruba increased or decreased in the last 6 months or so? The answers, as I say were so close, I will simply say the answer was "No", except for the latter part of the hurricane season down south, where trips to Aruba, as well as every other Caribbean destination dipped a little, and December and January, where trips booked to Aruba was a tad higher than usual, as some of the package deals for Aruba, depending on your hotel etc, were at a 10-25% discount. The two girls and one gentleman I spoke to talked quickly and right off the top of their heads. It's obvious that they book trips to Aruba very frequently, if not every day.

2) I asked if they felt that the Natalee Holloway disappearance had had any affect at all on their bookings for Aruba. All three answered none whatsoever. Two of them elaborated a little and mentioned the discounts for this month and January and that this may have something to do with this "isolated incident", but that if the discounts weren't in effect, they felt the holiday and January travel would probably be normal. The gentleman elaborated even further to say that no matter where people are booked to travel, incidents such as this happen just about everywhere. He also mentioned that Jamaica in the past decade has had some serious complaints from tourists and their tourism isn't what it used to be.

3) I asked "to the best of their knowledge", what areas of the Untied States mostly travel to Aruba? This first girl I talked to thought this was a funny question to ask, but I simply told her I was interested in knowing. She told me she couldn't quote this for Aruba, but simply said that for Caribbean travel, most of it is out of the northeastern and other northern states. The gentleman told me immediately that the northeastern states comprise most American bookings to Aruba. Then the third, the second girl, offered the same statistic, but also mentioned that Californian's like to travel to Aruba as well.


I live very close to the American border, in a large city.

I'll simply leave you with this and you can come to your own personal conclusions.


Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 16, 2005 7:37 PM

Dear Jim:

I feel the group over at The Bushy Haired Stranger site is being sarcastic. They are not many Beth Twitty supporters over there.

The second comment stabs at Congressman Bacchus as being a snitch for Beth Twitty.

Sometimes, you have to allow a little acclimatization, before you can accurately interpret a group's comments.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 16, 2005 05:23 PM


I suppose you could very well be right Harry, I simply read the first post I saw and reacted. Too funny. At any rate, my response to it, whether it be sarcasm or not, rings true in any event. There ARE too many people out there that feel Beth IS a part of this investigation: they believe everything she says and disbelieve what the ALE say. And these are the people as well who will WANT to hear what Beth has to say once we all get the basic juice from this meeting. They judge this investigation by her words only.

I'll go back there and read some more posts.

Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 16, 2005 7:46 PM

Posted by: dayo gould at December 16, 2005 7:50 PM

Oh yeah, she's pregnant. ... Also out of Joran's own mouth he said I will tell you what happened when I get ready.

Posted by: Allan Kluttz at December 16, 2005 07:34 PM

She may or may not be pregnant; if she told to Joran that she is, this is just one piece that he refrained to feed to media. Other two that we already know via Vanity Fair (by Charles Croes' word) are that she is a self-proclaimed lesbian and that she may have performed blowjob.

I guess we will get some other info as well from US media before Joran feels timely to tell them ...

Posted by: George at December 16, 2005 7:55 PM

Well Harry, here is proof that there are people that feel that Beth should have attended the meeting today. it's none other than the fellows who run scared monkeys. Here is their latest post on this, with their own opening commentary, complaining that Beth or another family member or at least a family lawyer wasn't able to attend. I tell ya ... read away ........

PR Machine Aruban Strategic Task Force goes to Washington, meet with Congressman Spencer Bachus regarding Natalee Holloway

From the AP: Congressman, Aruban officials discuss teen’s disappearance

Subtitled: More of the same old promises by Aruban officials and in a show of good will, Aruban’s deny access to a family member representative.

What more really be said? Long before Scared Monkeys followed the Natalee Holloway story, we were a political blog. We still do from time to time. So to actually think that a US Representative would actually do anything was pretty much wishful thinking or a pipe dream. How soon we forget. In typical political fashion; have a meeting, shake some hands, say some useless things, make some idle promises and call it a successful meeting. Does that just about cover it representative Bachus?

The most telling comment in the entire AP article was the fact that the Aruban delegations did not want a family representative present during the meetings. What is up with that? One of the biggest problems with this case has been a lack of communication, not being on the same page and the appearance of a cover up. So the Aruban delegation goes to Washington and does the same thing? What do you have to hide? Why couldn’t you say what you had to in front of a family representative? Shame on you Representative Bachus. This is American, not Aruba. We have full disclosure in this country and get to confront our accusers and are allowed and privy to information and comments in full disclosure. Representative Bachus, who do you represent? You would actually deny access of a legal representative of a family that you are the Representative of? What are you thinking?

You had a great opportunity to close the gap between the family and Aruba in a meeting on US soil. With that opportunity you allow a Police chief and two hired gun PR consultants to dictate rules. One of your constituents has lost a daughter and your choice when given it, is to deny access to their legal representative so that they might monitor the meeting.

Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 16, 2005 8:09 PM

Did anyone read that? And scared monkeys claims to their posters that they are totally unbiased in this case. What a crock boys.

Scared Monkeys refused to post probably 50% of my posts because the reality of them might have deterred their little juvenile follower's thinking.

If you want a post to actually be posted at Scared Monkeys, there is one basic prerequisite. Your post must contain one or more of the following: "Boycott Aruba!!" .. "She was gang raped" .. "There was an Aruban cover -up" .. "PVS orchestrated the whole cover-up" ... "Aruba is scum" .. "Aruban people are scum" ...


The list goes on and on ... you can get some realistic posts on there though, but it takes a few days until the thread is dead and teh no-one gets to read your post anyway.

Hail to Scared Monkeys, you hypocrites ...

Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 16, 2005 8:20 PM

While the SM post brought here by Jim contains patent nonsense hardly warranting a comment, there is some specific in this case I like to note:

Reporter: Patrick Paskel (ATV15)
...
* High Commisioner Berndadina ... stated that after that he was in Philadelphia for a meeting with other American police and investigator and sharing some information he was critized by the American colleagues that the ALE gave too much information to the family, since the family is also being investigated in the US." (from http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/10/natalee_hollowa_75.html )

Posted by: George at December 16, 2005 8:34 PM

http://www.al.com/birminghamnews/breaking/index.ssf?/mtlogs/bama_bhamnews_break/archives/2005_12.html#100225 : 'Aruban police restated their desire to further interview Mountain Brook teenagers who were with Holloway on the Aruban vacation in May, when she disappeared. Bachus said they should cooperate.

Bachus, who has been one of many critics of the Aruban-led investigation, said the Aruban investigators were professional and forthright and are using extensive resources to find out what happened.

“I do feel better about the investigation after meeting with them,” Bachus said.'

Posted by: George at December 16, 2005 8:44 PM

The trashing of a missing girl and her parents is so offensive to me that I wonder if these people have any empathy for others. That is the sign of sociopathic personality -only serving their own desires and needs without regard for others. Why did Natalee leave with Joran and one of the brothers - probably had too much to drink. The age in the US is 21 and people get in trouble on trips.The fault of the trip was lack of enough supervision and safeguards for the students and rules regarding curfews and drinking that were enforced.The statement by Joran that she was hysterical and didn't want to leave the beach sounds a little flimsy to say the least.You put her in a car and get her back. Period.!!!! Although his first statement was he returned her to the hotel.Trashing a missing girl is the lowest of low and shows "consciousness of guilt". Inconsistancies in an ever changing story show guilt. Perhaps Natalee is dead and will never be found, which is what I believe. But I think whether 2 years from now, 5, 10, or even 20, someone may come forward with the truth. Many cases are solved much later. I hope someone who knows something may have a conscience. I have a very bad taste about Aruba even though I've been there because of this. My favorite island has been St. Thomas and you have the benefit of being on a US island.It is lush and beautiful.I think this event will effect the "party trips of graduating seniors" . These days women can not make themselves vulnerable to predators. Alcohol is the source of this even if younger kids think it can't happen to them. It happened to Natalee and may the perpetrators carry it with them for the rest of their lives.

Posted by: sarya at December 16, 2005 9:13 PM

Monsieur Harry,
Is it possible that in the meeting will ask Beth and Dave some blood samples in order to determine the DNA for the letter, THAT could be a reason for the delay, I have not read any place that NONE of the biological relatives have done this.
Investigation is over in Aruba. Now, they are starting the investigation in USA, Is this going to be done by the Dutch/Aruba LE; is it like a follow up by the FBI ?
@Jim, well I did the same research in MTL and the packages for ARUBA are booked for the holidays. Scared monkeys and blogs for natalee, they are bunch of ignorant.
Always a great posts. Thx for the updates.
Antoinette

Posted by: antoinette at December 16, 2005 9:39 PM

Inconsistancies in an ever changing story show guilt.

Posted by: sarya at December 16, 2005 09:13 PM

So, you are sure that Beth Twitty is guilty. I too think so, although I believe more hard evidence is required to state so unequivocally.

BTW, a question on Alabaman law - when the Twittys are ultimately imprisoned and all their property attached in favor of injured parties, can Natalee still keep living in their home (valued about $330,000) without asserting her own claim against them?

Posted by: George at December 16, 2005 9:40 PM

Dear sarya:

Thank you for your recommendation about St. Thomas of the US Virgin Islands. I have never been to any Caribbean Island, so I am unable to comment on their natural beauty. Although I feel with respect to the disappearance case that we are discussing, it might be appropriate to mention the crime rate on St. Thomas.

On St. Thomas, it is generally advised to stay indoors after dark. You do not have to do that on Aruba. At least five people are missing on St. Thomas, and their disappearances are being actively pursued by law enforcement ... just as they are pursued in the USA, like Birmingham, AL.

I grant what you post about St. Thomas being a US territory; however, we should caution that as a US territory it develops the crime rate and crime resolution rate of most of our other US possessions. I believe it is safe to say that after sundown, the beauty of St. Thomas recedes behind closed doors.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 16, 2005 9:47 PM

Mademoiselle Antoinette:

Early on in the investigation, I believe, either Dave Holloway or Beth Twitty provided DNA samples for comparison with some items of potential evidence uncovered. They needed the parents DNA, since they did not have Natalee present. That DNA should still be available to the Dutch Forensic Institute and the FBI.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 16, 2005 9:53 PM

Dear George:

I caught that comment in a post above, as well, that the Twitty family was being investigated.

With ALoha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 16, 2005 9:55 PM

Hi Harry,
Well it is starting to get extremely enteresting now. Both the mother and the biological father gave DNA samples per the Birmingham newspaper. They noted that the step father did not give a DNA sample. I never under stood why they made a note of that. Possibly to substantiate the DNA on the toothbrush which has been rumored to be male DNA.

I find it interesting that two DA's are involved. Either it is so there are two to cover all the information or two to cover all the arests. Well we shall see.

Rita was very interesting tonight. I see now why faux never gave her a program. She has a penchant for trying to put words in people's mouths. She sounded like a small child, pleading with The aruban media spokesman to say the boys are guilty. Then she pulled a similar question on Julia Renfro, who treated her like the child she was being. It is quite obvius something is going to happen and soon.

Also_Dutch, that was a very lovely post particularly during this season.
Thanks again to you and your hosts.

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at December 17, 2005 1:49 AM

Inconsistancies in an ever changing story show guilt.

Posted by: sarya at December 16, 2005 09:13 PM

So, you are sure that Beth Twitty is guilty. I too think so, although I believe more hard evidence is required to state so unequivocally.

BTW, a question on Alabaman law - when the Twittys are ultimately imprisoned and all their property attached in favor of injured parties, can Natalee still keep living in their home (valued about $330,000) without asserting her own claim against them?

Posted by: George at December 16, 2005 09:40 PM


;)


Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 17, 2005 1:56 AM

Dear Little Bo Peep:

Two of the DAs present for the Washington, DC meeting represented the two counties within which the students and chaperones of the Mountain Brook vacationers to Aruba reside.

As I mentioned in an earlier post to this comment section, the DNA provided by Beth and Dave was for authenticating Natalee's DNA on potential evidence items discovered earlier in the investigation.

I suspect that the frankness of this meeting found Congressman Bacchus at a loss. It would seem that the Aruban investigation is on to something very serious. And, I suspect that the Arubans needed the USA's participation in order to proceed. I expect a serious revelation forthcoming soon.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 17, 2005 2:06 AM

George .. I checked that link of yours and saw an initial AD from the Twitty/Holloway Foundation wanting my money to support Beth's expensive hotel bills, restaurant meals, entertainment, shopping for clothes, shoes and God knows what else. I then scrolled down and read a vast array of juvenile comments about Beth having a warrant out for her arrest etc. I did some searching but can't find the article you mentioned regarding the family being investigated. Where did I go wrong?

I've seen this ad before, it's on their website, and I am still dumbfounded that people actually donate money so Beth can live a life of luxury on the road while she does absolutely nothing positive, actually nothing at all, to find her daughter. The vast majority of mothers in her position would be living out of tent trailers and cooking canned beans every night to attempt what Beth is doing. The question still remains as well. What is Beth Twitty actually DOING right now? Where is she? L.A.? New York? Basking in a hotel hot tub with a drink in her hand?

I'm seriously hoping that this "FUND" will be audited and made public somehow. I'd really like to see all the receipts so far (how many receipts have perhaps been lost or not turned over to the accountant(s) taking care of this?) From what I've learned about Beth and her "spoiled personality", I can just imagine the receipts for manicures, pedicures, hairdressers, expensive meals, hotels, taxis, rented cars etc etc etc.

What a waste of money ... not a dime of this money has helped her get any closer to finding her daughter. It has simply been used to jet her from one talk show to another.

What a world we live in ...

Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 17, 2005 2:41 AM

Dear Harry and LE who read this,

I have just spent one and a half hour analyzing posts linked to from http://www.google.com/search?q=site:www%2Eriehlworldview%2Ecom+%22Posted+by%3A+Melody%22 . My conlusions are as follows.
1. The poster is the person known (e.g. appeared on US TV) as Joran's ex-girlfriend.
2. She has affirmately learned about Natalee being alive and pregnant on or shortly before November 11, 2005.
3. She has stated this at http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/11/natalee_hollowa_26.html .
4. She has never been interviewed by LE.

Posted by: George at December 17, 2005 2:45 AM

George .. I checked that link of yours and saw an initial AD from the Twitty/Holloway Foundation wanting my money to support Beth's ... I did some searching but can't find the article you mentioned regarding the family being investigated. Where did I go wrong?

I've seen this ad before, it's on their website...

Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 17, 2005 02:41 AM

Jim,

You seem comprehended sites that you browse not very well.

1. You state "I've seen this ad before, it's on their website". "Their website" must the Twitty's, since the the Holloways do NOT HAVE a website. The ad at RWV is HOLLOWAY's fund, to which Beth Twitty has no relation. NO TWITTY-controlled site has an ad soliciting money for HOLLOWAYS.

2. My citation above is from the post made at http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/10/natalee_hollowa_75.html at 6:58:42 PM, but you could easily find it w/o this info using Ctl-F shortcut in your browser and a few words from my post.

Posted by: George at December 17, 2005 2:56 AM

Dear George:

I believe we will witness a number of anomalies surface as this case progresses. We must keep in mind that the Aruban prosecution focused heavily, if not exclusively, on prosecuting the three boys. In that focused effort, they obviously missed or sacrificed many glaring opportunities to break the case. You have identified one!

Congratulations!

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 17, 2005 3:02 AM

"They noted that the step father did not give a DNA sample. I never under stood why they made a note of that."

Because ALE is confused by his refusal to submit; ScubaJap reported it at RWV way back.

Posted by: George at December 17, 2005 3:03 AM

Dear George:

Did George Jug Twitty really refuse to give a DNA sample? If he did, WOW, you know what that means if Natalee is pregnant? Natalee's alleged letter has been rumored to refer to the father of her child as "someone close to Beth."

That is two breaks, George!

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 17, 2005 3:08 AM

"Did George Jug Twitty really refuse to give a DNA sample?"

Harry,

I have not been a witness to this;-) it is reported on the blog by the Aruban news reporter as information supposedly leaked by Dompig (they did yet know about pregnancy then, I believe).

Posted by: George at December 17, 2005 3:35 AM

Sorry, a typo - they did yet NOT know about pregnancy.

Posted by: George at December 17, 2005 3:38 AM

George .. don't blow a bowel here .. Beth Twitty HAS been using donated money for her adventures for months and months now. I already know she has her own funding, and Dave does as well. It's been reported that she wouldn't financially help Dave Holloway at one point. I could have been more specific about the funding, but I simply used the "ad for funding" as funding perse.

As far as your CTRL-F feature is concerned, I've never heard of it. I'll try that and see if I can find the article you were talking about.


I'm not sure what "You seem comprehended sites that you browse not very well." means, but I hope it's no belittling me for not knowing about these browser shortcuts, for if I have any software expertise at all, it certainly wouldn't be with an internet browser, it would be with financial software.


Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 17, 2005 5:38 AM

Jim,

You clearly stated "I checked that link of yours and saw an initial AD from the Twitty/Holloway Foundation wanting my money to support Beth's expensive ... I've seen this ad before, it's on their website", which is clearly false - the ad at RWV and Twitty's ad are quite different, they solicit money for different families. There is no Holloway's ad at any Twitty's site and no Twitty's ad at RWV.

"I'm not sure what "You seem comprehended sites that you browse not very well." means, but I hope it's no belittling me for not knowing about these browser shortcuts"

Of course not; I mere noted that your perception of content at my link was found somewhat different from what it really is. As to the "Ctl-F" shortcut, it is not inherent to Internet browsers; it is the standard Windows function "Find" available in most GUI software, e.g. financial. Frankly, it must be very difficult to look for any info not using it.

Posted by: George at December 17, 2005 6:20 AM

I feel probability that you are right is high, since (as Lazlo noted at http://p073.ezboard.com/ftheunusualsuspectsfrm7.showMessage?topicID=480.topic) your supposition is corroborated at http://www.aruba.com/phpNews/wmview.php?ArtID=623 :
------

I don't know why aruba.com has it dated 12/13. This is an old article from 10/29.

Source: Korpskrant, Politie Utrecht jaargang 7 nummer 14. Published in Aruba 29-10-05.

Posted by: Honey Author Profile Page at December 17, 2005 6:51 AM

George .. thanks for the handy CTRL-F tip. I managed to read every post by Melody, and any post relating to Melody within another person's post, and I am still trying to figure out how you came to the conclusion that this "Melody" person should be interviewed by the police, that she is Joran's ex-girlfriend, and that she really knows that Natalee is pregnant, alive and well. I'm not disputing the fact that she may be pregnant, so I am certainly not disputing the fact that she could be alive. George, I know for a fact that in cyberspace, someone can assume an identity on a blog and stick with it, try to trick people, see their reactions, like it, and carry on into neverneverland. For God's sake, I myself could be melody for all you know.

My reaction is this: This "Melody" person isn't real enough to allow me to expound the statement you made about her. You're going to have to be more explicit about your investigation to convince not only me, but other people as well. For an hour and half's work, you certainly didn't come up with any hard evidence.

Well, I've had too much coffee ... I'm off to work.

Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 17, 2005 6:57 AM

Dear Jim & Geroge:

It has been alleged by posters on either TBHS or RWV (possibly both sites) that Dan has mentioned that Melody is the real deal. I have interfaced with these posters, and they are quite credible in what they post. As a matter of direction for research, I believe, that shortly after Melody's post on RWV that Natalee is pregnant, one of these posters attests to her credibility via Dan.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 17, 2005 2:12 PM

Jim,

I certainly didn't come up with any hard evidence, unlike Bet Twitty I leave this to prosecution. Melody has provided enough information making possible for LE to contact her; this information is taken out the Web for a reason, and I don't intend to put her in position to be harassed by Joe Mammana's alikes.

Posted by: George at December 17, 2005 2:46 PM



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