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December 12, 2005

HarryTho 12/12 Natalee Holloway Commentary (Updated)

Topics: Natalee Holloway

This evening we will do something a little different, for a change, and visit Akira Kurasawa's (video) and Ryonosuke Akutagawa's (novel) Roshomon. Roshomon has been acclaimed as the finest film exploration of the philosophy of justice. For those of you who saw the movie "The Outrage" with Paul Newman, it's a Western remake of Roshomon.

Essentially, the story concerns a murder. The author exposes the murder, then in the style of Soren Kierkegaard's "Fear and Trembling," he narrates the positions of the four suspects. Each suspect explains, with advantages, his or her interface with the murder.

What both the novel and the film introduce is our human drive to present ourselves in the best light in trying circumstances. After our look into the Roshomon Phenomenon, I'll suggest that readers revisit the Natalee Holloway case, explore the statements of the participants (suspects and others) and attempt to identify the blooming Roshomon Phenomenon.

Accordingly, whenever we encounter a mystery in which some blame threatens our existence or freedom, we can expect to witness what has been referred to as the Roshomon Phenomenon unfold. Participants (suspects) will naturally express their positions with advantages, aimed at making themselves look better or consistent with the lofty ideals of their norms whenever possible. Investigators attempt to filter out the Roshomon Phenomenon whenever they can in order to get to the truth of the matter.

In the novel and movie Roshomon, the quest for truth eludes the investigators. So, they devise a scheme that enables the participants (suspects) to act out their true nature.

Amazon.com: Rashomon and Other Stories: DVD: Ryunosuke Akutagawa,M. Kuwata,Howard Hibbett,Takashi Kojima

Amazon.com: Rashomon - Criterion Collection: DVD: Toshirô Mifune,Machiko Kyô,Masayuki Mori,Takashi Shimura,Minoru Chiaki,Kich..

Half Empty | Marty's Notes On "Roshomon"

It is a wonderful story!

As a note, Akira Kurasawa has produced some outstanding films: Ran, Dreams, Rhapsody in August (with Richard Gere), Seven Samurai (a classic), etc:

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I encourage our readers to revisit the Natalee Holloway case, explore the statements of the participants (suspects and others) and attempt to identify the blooming Roshomon Phenomenon.

Updated: Greta of Fox News interviews Jossy Mansur and reveals that Chief Prosecutor Janssen is to be fired. Jossy believes that Janssen has not been given a fair shake.

Greta on Fox News interviewed Beth Twitty. No news there! Greta released that an Aruban official will meet with someone in the US Congress. Greta and Beth suspect that it is Alabama Congressman Bacchus.

Janseen will most likely be fired on 16 December 2005. However, the police union has expressed their position that they will not cooperate, if Janssen is fired.

Also on Greta of Fox News - she held her council of Jeff Brown, Bernie Grimm and Ted Williams

Jeff Brown feels Janssen will be fired. Jeff feels the case is over.

Bernie Grimm agrees as well that Janssen will fired. He stresses that there is no evidence in this case with conflicting statements. The case has been bungled too far.

Ted Williams states new blood is needed to continue this case. He wants the FBI in as a full partner, and he wants more family communication. Not many of us would disagree with Ted's comments.

Lastly for tonight, from the AP - Congressman says Aruban officials going to Washington to discuss missing teen case:

Aruban authorities, under pressure because of the unsolved disappearance of an Alabama teenager, will meet with officials in Washington to provide a detailed review of the investigation, a congressman said Monday.

"This meeting will provide an opportunity, out of the media glare and in as unemotional manner as possible, for the Aruban and Dutch authorities to give a detailed review of the facts and evidence in the case, and to present us with information regarding the progress of the investigation and of their efforts.


Posted for HarryTho

Posted by Richard at December 12, 2005 9:29 PM

Hi Harry,
I think that I first encountered what you call the Rashomon Syndrome in a Communication Theory class.
But this idea crosses every discipline. Psychology,
Philosophy, Linguists all address this notion in some way. I would submit to you that we will be having a very interesting conversation now.
I have found a fascinating discussion showing how the disciplines connect and I will post it. Thanks for reminding me why I think the way that I do.
The piece is called "On learning to see"
http://www.doceo.co.uk/tools/frame.htm

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at December 12, 2005 11:09 PM

Dear Little Bo Peep:

I am indebted to you for the link. Thank you! It is like icing on a delicious cake!

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 12, 2005 11:17 PM

To All:

Given the recent commotion in Aruba: potential firing of Janssen and the alleged letter from Natalee going unnoticed, I suspect that this "closed-door" meeting in Washington, DC with senior Aruban investigators is not for what the Twitty-Holloway camp has championed. I believe Janssen may be being relieved, because of suppression of evidence. I believe the letter has been tested and authenticated. And, I suspect the meeting in Washington, DC has to do with turning the entire disappearance case over the American authorities. Let us not forget, the forgery of the Skeeter tapes.

The upcoming meeting may turn out to be a black day for America.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 13, 2005 1:08 AM

The upcoming meeting may turn out to be a black day for America.

Your post makes a lot of sense. And I can see how this would reflect badly on America. If you have guessed right, what does this mean for the Twitty camp?

Posted by: Max at December 13, 2005 3:03 AM

Hi Harry ...

I think it's high time the Arubans took all the evidence in their possession and laid it on the table behind closed doors for US law enforcement officials to see. What I'm mostly concerned about is the media. They WILL get ahold of the details shortly after these meetings. The most positive of all this, for me, and I suppose many others, is if US officials find no evidence of a "cover-up" (Started by Twitty Media Inc) that these officials will have the eight balls to publicly state this fact to the entire US media. If certain Aruban officials are willing to be this forthcoming, they are obviously confident about this little adventure. I for one am glad this meeting is taking place.

By the way, does anyone know (Harry?) if the Arubans can petition any US court to have a gag order slapped on Beth Twitty? My God, wouldn't this case be so much clearer and easier to deal with if this was possible? I'll do a little research at my office tommorrow. If this proves futile, is there anyone who knows offhand about a gag order like this being granted by a judge from another country?


Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 13, 2005 4:05 AM

Harry, I wait for your column every night. You give us many things to think about.

If the FBI received a copy of the letter before last week, do you think that they have authenticated it, even though the Dutch lab would not have had the time to do so yet? If so, I believe they would have shared that information with ALE.

If the truth comes out, it will not be a black day for America, but it sure will be for certain Americans.


Posted by: greenwing Author Profile Page at December 13, 2005 4:21 AM

Hi everyone,

After reading Jim Hanson's post and reading what was said in the link below I really think that the ALE is very confident. I believe that the meeting with the congressman(men) is just a curtesy call. Afterall the FBI is on the same page as the ALE!


http://www.aruba.com/phpNews/wmview.php?ArtID=623

I've found this link on the scrux.com forum and it was posted by TallyGirl (just giving credit where credit is due!)

Posted by: Also_Dutch at December 13, 2005 4:35 AM

THE FBI. has been on this case from the first week ... I WAS THERE. What ever the ARUBANS know they know.THESE 3 KIDS ARE BEING USED.. FOR MANY RESONS MOSTLY MONEY (RATINGS). NOW BETH IS AN EXPERT ON FINDING MISSING KIDS >> JUST LIKE MARK F.& ALL OTHERS JOSSY ECT>>BETH & JUG CAN TELL THEM WERE TO GET THIER HIRE & MAKEUP DONE BETWEEN INTERVIEWS!!!

Posted by: rib at December 13, 2005 7:09 AM

ALE certainly has wanted this meeting with an Alabama US congressman. Will Dompig be there or is he going to MB for
interviews?

Posted by: jackson80 Author Profile Page at December 13, 2005 7:14 AM

I am wondering if the arriving Aruban authorities.....that they, along with our FBI, will now sit down with the MB teens/chaperones, and possibly interview/interrogate them along with all of Natalee's family members.

Beth wants full disclosure. Well she may get exactly what she wished for...but it's not going to be what she wanted!

Of course she is going to SCREAM to high heaven when she finds herself..NOT being a part of these meetings/interviews/interrorgations. And our FBI will NOT share anything with her. Will she then call our own Investigative body, of the United States, corrupt?

Posted by: Donna at December 13, 2005 8:02 AM

I am wondering if the arriving Aruban authorities.....that they, along with our FBI, will now sit down with the MB teens/chaperones, and possibly interview/interrogate them along with all of Natalee's family members.

Beth wants full disclosure. Well she may get exactly what she wished for...but it's not going to be what she wanted!

Of course she is going to SCREAM to high heaven when she finds herself..NOT being a part of these meetings/interviews/interrorgations. And our FBI will NOT share anything with her. Will she then call our own Investigative body, of the United States, corrupt?

Posted by: Donna at December 13, 2005 8:03 AM

OOps..how did my post get in their twice? Sorry!!

Posted by: Donna at December 13, 2005 10:06 AM

Hi Harry,

I think this meeting will go a long way towards resolution. I sincerely hope that, by putting the two sides of this case together, FBI and Aruban they will be able to dot all the i's and cross all the t's.

Seriously, I do not think the FBI and the Aruban authorities have been sharing anything with the family because the family has a penchant for disclosure. Also, isn't everyone a suspect until they are ruled out?

Hope the media is unable to learn the particulars of this meeting, unless of course the authorities use them for certain revelations.

Last night Dan Riehl posted this:
He thinks Jansen is being fired for suppressing evidence

Supposedly she was in trouble for witholding evidence that was in the boys favor - the DNA results, actually. They were negative.

Posted by: Dan | Dec 13, 2005 2:47:14 AM

Do you agree with his thoughts?

One last thing, Harry why do you believe:
"The upcoming meeting may turn out to be a black day for America"

Thanks as always. Nice sharing this roller coaster ride with you and all your interesting posters..

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at December 13, 2005 10:37 AM

How much do you all wanna bet, that AFTER the Aruban Authorities come to the U.S., they do the meetings, and possibly re-interview the MB students/chaperones, and possibly the family and other friends of Natalee (some that may not of been on this trip) that Beth Holloway, will NOT be available for comment? She may even leave the country or will be "traveling". Will she then, state that any and all questions the media now has, can be asked/answered through her NYC attorney, John Q Kelly? I bet her excuse will be that she now, has to start the "grief" process in private. Or that John Q. Kelly will be her spokesperson from now on.

I wonder when she'll plan the HUGE memorial service, attended by politicians, celebrities, all of Mountain Brook, T. J Ward, Joe Felon, Art Wood, Jossy Mansur, etc..and of course have it broadcasted on all the cable shows...I am wondering if she'll do this at the moment that the Aruban Authorities want to talk to the Family, friends, MB students, chaperones, etc. And make it look like the Aruban Authorities are heartless..that here she is trying to have this memorial for her daughter, and they just want to interupt this, to re-interview the students, etc.

Posted by: Donna at December 13, 2005 11:08 AM

IMO, Twitty/Holloway are going to receive news from their local LE.
Believe, is NOT USA Congressman that asked for the interview to ALE & DFI. For me is ALE & DFI that asked USA LE & Congressman, because think investigation is over in Aruba. Besides, as long is international case they might need an authorization to make the proper investigations. On the other hand, they are going to ask the extradition of some people. Interesting.
Letter was test in DFI. Therefore, they might have results. Did Beth submit her letter?. Check if it is the same or similar to the one of ALE and Mr. PVDS.
antoinette

Posted by: antoinette at December 13, 2005 12:31 PM

I believe that mr. Harry is intervieuwing the wrong person. Mr. Jossie Mansur is not the proper person for this kind of shows. In Aruba he exposed a lot of false issues regarding the case. In the show of Nancy Grace he spoke a lot of stupidities and now he coming up with a story of firing mrs. Jansen. Jossie must dedicate a little bit more time to his corrupted issues in Aruba and stop spitting his resentments on the local authorities.

Posted by: Carlos at December 13, 2005 12:38 PM

In Aruba, many people took off for a general search. We did our best. The system works and the authorities didn't speak up because of some delicate issues. Beth most know better. She blew away some important informations that was given to her by the authorities. Instead of being in Aruba and participating in the investigations, she choose for the media exposure. If something went wrong Aruba will solve it. But if Beth continues her journey of bad talking the island she will never win her war. In opposite we start getting the feeling that Beth is hiding something somewhere.

Posted by: Carlos at December 13, 2005 12:44 PM

Dear Carlos:

You are new to our post, so I will explain to you that I have never interviewed anyone on this blog. What I write in my updates is what is released by the American cable news networks. Any reference to Jossy Mansur is what he said during an interview with a cable news host.

I would not waste my time interviewing Jossy Mansur. If desired that kind of information, I would rather entertain Ms. Allison Dubois, the psychic, and refresh my French.

Carlos, please take the time to read over our post on Natalee Holloway, you will discover that we have much in common with your post.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 13, 2005 1:39 PM

Dear Also_Dutch:

Thank you for the link. It was very informative, and I encourage all our readers to check out the link.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 13, 2005 1:45 PM

Dear Little Bo Peep:

The letter is an embarrassment for being neglected so long. I would agree with Dan on the suppression of evidence but not for the DNA results. They were negative and only moderately exculpatory. The letter, however, opens up a new vista of investigation and eliminates the more serious criminal approaches to the case. The letter is a serious problem.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 13, 2005 1:54 PM

I've tried some researching here and can't come up with anything solid regarding a Dutch/Aruban petition to any certain level of US court that can activate a gag order on the Twitty's do they can no longer discuss this case publicly.

Once again, does anyone have any knowledge about this?

Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 13, 2005 1:57 PM

Dear Jim:

I suspect that if we persevere until the end of the week, the Aruban authorities will not a gag order placed upon Beth Twitty.

The procedure though is for the Foreign Ministry of the Kingdom of the Netherlands to express its concerns with the US State Department. The US State Department, then, will act accordingly in order to insure Ms. Twitty's demeanor falls within the boundaries of international protocol.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 13, 2005 2:09 PM

Dear Jim:

Clarification:

I suspect that if we persevere until the end of the week, the Aruban authorities will not need a gag order placed upon Beth Twitty.


Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 13, 2005 2:11 PM

Harry..

I do believe the FBI already told Mrs Twitty not to speak about the on-going investigation, early on...alot of good that did!

What other type of "gag" order can be placed on Mrs. Twitty, from any law enforcement in this country?


And wouldn't wouldn't that order come from a Judge, in a court of law, in this country to be enforceable on a American citizen?

And I highly doubt Mrs Twitty will respect the order, anyways. She feels she has some sort of entitlement, when she shouldn't. I am sure she would LOVE to be jailed, so that her VICTIMIZATION she feels, would be warranted.
The ALLEGED victim is Natalee. Not Beth Twitty. Her actions probably have caused severe damage, to any case that would of been able to be presented in front of a Judge in Aruba.
Her obsessive need to prove what she felt, and that she was right, and try these boys in the court of public opinion, OVERSHADOWED what was BEST for Natalee, and that is giving her the kind of Justice that NATALEE (not beth), deserves.


My question is this. Why would she do this, when she wants justice for her daughter? Or isn't Natalee even an equation in this at all? Is it all in the end, just what is BEST for BETH?

Posted by: Donna at December 13, 2005 3:45 PM

Mr. Harry,
Thanks for your reply. I do have copy of a recording of Bill O'Reilly where the chapparones makes it clear that Beth requested them not to speak. If you want I can send it to you...reply please! why would a grieving mother do that if she wants her daughter back????

Posted by: Carlos at December 13, 2005 5:00 PM

Dear Carlos:

Actually, it might be better if you posted the important parts of the comments to the chaperones in a post in this comment section. I am sure our readers would appreciate viewing these comments.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 13, 2005 5:15 PM

Dear Donna:

The State Department will work via the judicial system (Department of Justice) in order to gag Mrs. Twitty. A federal judge would issue the judicial decree for her to remain silent.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 13, 2005 5:18 PM

Dear Jackson:

Police Chief Dompig has been ordered not to talk to the media, so I doubt that he will be coming to the USA.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry at December 13, 2005 5:33 PM

This just keeps getting better.Natalie has to be in the US

Posted by: Peter at December 13, 2005 5:41 PM

Hi Harry,
Thanks for your reply.
For carlos, scrux has compiled everything said by the students, you might enjoy reading it. "It is in our best interests not to speak..." not quoting verbatim, from memory. At the time, I remember that phraseology not sitting well with me.
Peter, I hope you are right. But, how did she get there?

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at December 13, 2005 6:57 PM



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