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December 1, 2005

HarryTho 12/01 Natalee Holloway Commentary (Updated with cable news info)

Topics: Natalee Holloway

First, let 's visit the ongoing multiple tape problem ongoing between Aruba and Dr. Phil McGraw. From where the cable news networks left the discussion last evening, Bernie Grimm suggested that there could be two versions of the DVD, created by Jamie Skeeter from the Deepak Kalpoe conversation. Bernie Grimm concluded that one of those DVD reproductions had to be a forgery.

Whatever the outcome with respect to the responsibility for the forgery, it is clear that whatever taping was done is useless to the Aruban prosecution. The fact that two versions exists discredits those responsible for the taping, as well as, the taping itself. What is worse is that a legal "forbidden fruit" malignancy has emerged to discredit other once credible information. The case for the prosecution against Deepak Kalpoe commences its spiral into worthless oblivion. We could conclude that, baring a credible confession, Deepak Kalpoe has been exonerated by the existence of the two taped versions of his conversation with Jamie Skeeter.

What I am saying here is that regardless of whether or not the FBI concludes that the hard drive contains incriminating evidence, Deepak Kalpoe is exonerated. First, the copy provided the Dutch Forensic Institute (DFI), the only accredited forensic reference under Aruban law, has been deemed a forgery. Second, the existence of the two taped versions with contradictory statements contained therein discredits the taper. Succinctly, if you cannot trust the messager, how can you trust the message. We could say this case is over for Deepak Kalpoe.

With Deepak Kalpoe exonerated, it is but a mere matter of time before the malignancy devours the case against the other suspects. Sooner or later, any interconnecting information amongst the prime, three suspects and their associated suspects will need to be discarded.

All is not lost, with the three suspects finally exonerated, we can peruse new avenues of investigation. One such avenue is the possibility that Natalee Holloway ran away. This information comes via the Bushy-Haired Stranger site (TBHS), as posted by - MlazyV:

Profile of Natalee Holloway

Extracurricular Activities: During Natalle's high school years she participated several extracurricular activities including:

The American Field Service - A club which interacts with the foreign exchange students.
Dorians Dance Team
Future Business Leaders of America
Mu Alpha Theta - Math honor society
Natural Helpers - A peer based emotional support group.
Outdoors Club
Spanish Club
Spanish Honor Society
Spartan Pride - School pep group.
TASC - Teens Actively Serving the Community
Natalee speaks Spanish! How come this has never come out before? She can travel through all parts of Latin America with ease (except Brazil). If she dyed her hair black, how would anyone really find her? She would be speaking perfect Spanish by now!

And, she joined an outdoor club which means she learned some survival training. With her talent for studies, she could have mapped the area of her escape long before she left Mountain Brook. All she needed to do was to reach the South American coastline. That lead in Puento Fijo, Venezuela and LT Rudy's suspicions seem right on.

Furthermore, according to the list of her extracurricular activities, she interacted with foreign students. If there exists a Spanish-speaking foreign-student on her hard drive, then we may have a lead as to her possible escape route from Aruba and through Latin America.

In a prior editorial, we covered the routine routes through Venezuela. Let us take a trip down memory lane:
Action seems to be picking up on Aruba in Natalee Holloway case - Is there really a chance Natalee could be in Venezuela...

According to People Magazine on AOL, Jug Twitty told reporters that leads have surfaced hinting that Natalee is in Venezuela or some other country. This may be the lead the Aruban police were working on, concerning Natalee's being accosted on her way to the Holiday Inn from where Joran left her at the Marriott Beach.
HarryTho's Sunday Night Natalee Holloway Commentary :: Natalee Holloway :: Hyscience
Santa Ana de Coro (Coro) is the major city at the base of the Peninsula de Paraguara in the Venezuelan state of Falcon. The city's port of La Vela, in the Gulf of Coro, acts as the major contraband trafficking center from Venezuela to the Caribbean with specific destinations to Curacao and Bonaire. Dutch and Spanish influence remain in this area. Coro was the first city in the Americas!

Punto de Fijo is the main port area on the Peninsula de Paraguara; however, it lies at the base of the western side of the peninsula. Traveling by boat from Aruba would be much easier and quicker to east side of the peninsula into the Gulf of Coro.

Main trafficking areas along the northern coast of Venezuela are Caracas, the country's capital and the infamous pleasure area: Isla de Magarita to the east of Caracas. Off the coast of Isla de Magarita is another hideout at Isla Blanquilla with white sand beaches.

If Natalee was trafficked out of Aruba, she would most likely have been brought into La Vela in Coro.



Monday Night Natalee Holloway Updates And Commentaries :: Natalee Holloway :: Hyscience
Venezuela experiences a significant narcotics-related money-laundering activity on Margarita Island (Isla de Margarita). Margarita Island is also a prostitution hot bed and sex slave trafficking center.

Cocaine is smuggled from Venezuela in multi-hundred kilo to multi-ton lots via "go-fast" boats. "Go-fast" boats are what the Aruban police refer to as "street boats."

A large amount of oil is exported to the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba for refining via larger merchant vessels. The important ports are Maracaibo, Puerto Cabello, La Guaira and Camana.

Maracaibo is the oil capital of South America.

Puerto Cabello is a Dutch smugglers hideout.
La Guaira is the main port of Caracas.
Cumana acts as the gateway to the infamous Isla de Margarita.

The air outlet for Venezuela is Maiqueta International Airport in Caracas ... also known as Simon Bolivar International Airport. The airport is some 30 kilometers form Caracas. A culture of corruption exists at Maiqueta. Mid-level military officers are well-known for taking bribes in order to allow contraband, usually heroin and cocaine, to exit Venezuela.

Within Venezuela, smuggling occurs on the Pan-American Highway, the Orinoco River, Guajira Peninsula and hundreds of small airstrips.

Venezuela is inundated with sex slave trafficking.
Sunday Night Natalee Holloway Updates Via HarryTho Commentary :: Natalee Holloway :: Hyscience
Scared Monkeys interviewed Tito Lacle again today. During the interview, Tito mentioned that there was a report that Natalee Hollway was seen in Punto Fijo, Venezuela, and that people had been sent to Punto Fijo to check it out - with negative results. If this is a case of white slave trade, those involved would make the trail extremely hard to follow. Standard police types are not trained in dealing with these kinds of criminals. And, remember, ample evidence suggests that the military police in northern Venezuela are team players with the traffickers.

As I said in a previous commentary, Punto Fijo is on the western side of the Peninsula de Paraguana. From Punto Fijo, Natalee would have been brought to Coro, Venezuela. From Coro, my guess would be that she was taken east to Caracas. However, for immediate servitude to the oil crews, she could have been taken to Maracaibo (I doubt this option). A slave trade commodity like Natalee: young, attractive, blue-eyed-blond Caucasian would go to an exclusive, private stable. These stables have the protection of the local authorities. It is not inconceivable that high ranking officials would frequent this establishment.

If Natalee entered the Venezuelan stable system, it is quite possible that she could have been exchanged, or sold, to the Brunei freak for a sizeable profit ... after she had been broken in the Venezuelan dungeons. The men who run these stables are quite ruthless with the girls. They have learned to appreciate the good life by subjugating poor girls into slavery. Invincibility captures the imagination of their sick minds.

As a precaution, when probing the channels of thetrade of these individuals, our Western minds need to be discarded. A novel group of individuals with different eyes and a drastically-altered default mode of thinking are warranted.

Evening Natalee Holloway Updates With HarryTho Commentary :: Natalee Holloway :: Hyscience
Maracaibo happens to be a potential destination for sex trade activities. A large oil development facility exists there. These facilities attract hordes of skilled and unskilled labor which in turn demand some form of entertainment. Young girls are one form of provided entertainment. Sex slave providers maintain stables of young appropriated females. For the most part, these girls have been tricked or abducted from neighboring countries: Columbia, Ecuador and Bolivia. I don't believe that Caucasian females would end up in one of these dingy brothels; however, it is not inconceivable. Once at the sex slave site, the sex slavers would not turn a young Caucasian away. Since Maracaibo's oil industry would interface with other oil producing countries, it is conceivable that a connection could have been made with the brother of the Sultan of Brunei, a known admirer of Caucasian sex women.

The US Government has sent four officials to the Maracaibo to investigate the crash site. Why miss an opportunity to probe into Maracaibo?

HarryTho Natalee Holloway Update and Commentary :: Natalee Holloway :: Hyscience

Intense traffic in women between the Netherlands and Suriname.
Suriname issues temporary work permits for foreign prostitutes. Women and children are sold in gold mining towns. Entry point for sex trafficking is Paramaribo. Traffickers receive $500 for a Brazilian woman. Chinese and Indian girls are smuggled into the country. Paramaribo prostitutes go for $10 to $30. Suriname is indifferent to sex trafficking.

Comment: If Chinese girls can be smuggled into Suriname, then it follows that white slave trade can flourish going to China.

Chinese are smuggled into and through Suriname. Sex trafficked women are in interior mining camps. Suriname trafficked women-obtained to the Netherlands.

HarryTho Opines On Natalee Hollaway's Disappearance :: Natalee Holloway :: Hyscience
Interestingly, two of the suspects are Surinamese: Deepak and Satish Kalpoe. In support of Suriname as a possible destination for Natalee is the fact that a blog investigation concluded from eye-witness testimonies that Natalee left Carlos & Charlie's with Deepak Kalpoe. We have a loose connection between a Surinamese individual and a sex slave trafficking country Suriname.

Sex Slavery is a pipeline industry. As with most pipeline industries, they do not operate continuously. The key is to time abductions so that they coincide with transshipment opportunities. Targets are selected, abducted then included within the pipeline. In this way, the abductee seems to disappear from the face of the earth. Once within the pipeline, the abductees become invisible.

Sex slavery between China and Suriname would employ waterborne containers. The abductees would be housed within sealed containers. Currently, the USA overseas trafficking authorities have determined that Chinese sex slaves are smuggled into Suriname for further transshipment into the USA. It follows that the same containers can be used to transship sex slaves abducted in South American countries to China and Japan ... and have been documented.

As a reference, an attractive, blue-eyed, blonde sex slave would carry a $100,000 price tag in Japan or China. Though the amount seems exorbitant, Chinese and Japanese businessmen would pay up to $500 for twenty minutes with such a sex slave. Accordingly, 200 performances would recoup the purchaser's outlay. For 6-7 experiences per day, the purchaser recoups his investment in one month. By now, the purchaser would have tripled his investment in Natalee. Unfortunately, Natalee would be in demand more than 6-7 times per day. Furthermore, the sex freak in Brunei would pay more than $100,000 for Natalee. With 15% of the Surinamese population being Javanese, it follows that her sale could have gone the Indonesia-Brunei route.

If we concentrate on which vessels, with ultimate destinations in China or Japan, moored in the major ports of Suriname: Paramaribo, Niuew Nickerie and Nieuw Amsterdam, then we can begin to track Natalee's fate. The USA overseas investigative authorities may have already minimized the number of vessels under suspicion of sex slave trafficking entering Suriname.

As to how Natalee got to Suriname, I believe she was, in fact, drugged and taken by street boat (fast boat) to Puento Fijo, Venezuela and then overland via Coro, Caracas and Isle Magarita to one of Suriname's ports. The early lead that Natalee was seen in Puento Fijo was accurate.

The best sites for sex slaves of Natalee's caliber would the Roppongi District in Tokyo or the fast clubs of Beijing or Shanghai, China. She would draw the highest prices in those establishments. In the Soaplands of the Roppongi district, Natalee could draw $1000 for full service per client. Casablanca is a recommended hostess bar in Roppongi.

Welcome to shanghai online!

In Beijing, China, the hot sex places are the Howard Johnson Paragon near the train station for 1200 RMB (US $150), Great Dragon Hotel 600 RMB (US $70) for one hour, and Fong Jon, a hot new dance club, with private rooms at $800 for all night sex. The Zhaolong Hotel caters to Chinese military officers ... a likely location to imprison Natalee.

Sex Trade Thrives In China (washingtonpost.com)

In Hong Kong: Club Butterfly

In Macau: Macau Night Life

Am I saying that Natalee 'IS' a sex slave? Certainly not, but just what if, what if she hasn't been murdered and stuffed in a hole on Aruba, or fed to sharks offshore - then the 'WHY' she would be is almost as important as the 'WHERE' she would be, at least if trying to find her is the issue, and it is! Can you think of a better reason to usher her off the island other than to cover up the crime of a drugged rape by giving her to sex traders?

HarryTho Natalee Holloway Wednesday Update And Commentary :: Natalee Holloway :: Hyscience.

I do suspect that the Aruban authorities know how Natalee left the island. She was taken on a street boat (fast boat) to Puento Fijo, Venezuela (it's a port on the peninsula de Paraguara). The Aruban police checked out a lead, allegedly reporting a sighting of Natalee there. Keep in mind that the Venezuelan police are not as police-minded as the Aruban authorities. Data abounds that they are in cahoots with the trafficking schemes all over Venezuela. Some suggestions (I'm being polite) consider the Venezuelan military as the traffickers (mostly drugs).
HarryTho Update To Wednesday's Natalee Holloway Commentary (with new info) :: Natalee Holloway :: Hyscience
So, not to beat a dead horse, but (referring back to last night's post) it has also been established that sex trade and illegal immigrants are shipped via containers into all countries. Whether Maersk is involved or not, I cannot ascertain. However, it is a Maersk line that ships to Miami from Paramaribo. Chinese sex slaves enter the USA from Suriname via Miami. Although I cannot prove with certainty that they employ Maersk, the backdrop fits the scenario.
HarryTho's 10/11 Natalee Holloway Evening Update And Commentary :: Natalee Holloway :: Hyscience
From the information that I've already reviewed, could a possible scenario be that Natalee Holloway intended to sneak out of Aruba on a street boat (or other means) in order to deflect attention from AmSouth's money laundering investigation and to, perhaps, create a money wheel from her disappearance? In other words, this entire disappearance could have been prearranged in order to defraud the American public. Remember, two experienced Aruban detectives hinted at a "on her accord" departure from Aruba. Clearly, we would have found a body had she been buried on Aruba.
HarryTho 10/17 Early Evening Natalee Holloway Update And Commentary: A Briefing On Aruba, Jossy Mansur, And Crime .
"Most observers do agree on that supposition. Nothing moves on Aruba without the consent of the Mansur's: ""If you want to do business on the island, you have to deal with them."

Although the foregoing highlights sex slave trafficking, we can envision Natalee employing similar routes to escape Aruba, via fastboat, to Puento Fijo, Venezuela. From Puneto Fijo, Natalee would travel to Coro, Venezuela. From Coro, it is choice to go east or west. If it were Natalee's intention to travel back into the United States via Mexico, then Natalee traveled to Maracaibo, Venezuela. From Maracaibo, it is anybody's guess what her plans were to exit Venezuela. To our knowledge, she did not have a passport in her possession. She did not seem to be savvy in the manner in which fake passports are issued, so her plan must have dealt with crossing the Mexican-American border with other like-minded immigrants. She was a hiker, so it is not inconceivable that she and some Spanish-speaking accomplices intended to travel from Venezuela up through Central America. A sailboat out of Maracaibo, Venezuela would do nicely, as well. Sailboat crews seem to be able to defeat local immigration officials wherever the drop anchor.

Given Natalee's school extracurricular activities' profile, she was capable of such a venture into South America with an anticipated return into USA soil via the Mexican-American border.


And lastly, a quick regress to the boycott issue, from Aruba Truth:
Caribbean Tourism Organization Letter To US State Department
Honourable Condoleezza Rice
Secretary of State
US Department of State

Aruba is a strong supporter of the United States in hemispheric matters and depends heavily on its growing tourism business to sustain its economy. Aruba, in fact, is one of the great success stories of our hemisphere particularly as a people who are committed to democratic ideals and economic self-determination. Moreover, there is no one in our region who believes that any government official in Aruba or in any other Caribbean country would be engaged in protecting the wrongdoing of any individual citizen while risking the entire national economy.

It is for these reasons that we wish to express our strongest possible outrage at these calls for boycotts, particularly from elected officials within the United States. We are confident that wise counsel from your good offices to those individuals and officials regarding these international matters would prove helpful in preventing these troublesome developments.

Let's add a hat tip to Roger at Scrux.com, a great site with consistantly good information on Natalee's case. It appears that we have inadvertantly missed linking him in the past, and want to make up for it, in this small way, by linking to him here - and will remember to do so in the future...

Updates:

Rita Crosby of MSNBC News hosts Arlene Ellis-Schipper, Wendy Murphy and Frank Piazza (computer voice analyzer). Once again, we hear the Deepak Kalpoe statements with Jamie Skeeter. This time the voices on the tapes are more distinct in the two versions. And, they appear much closer than those we heard last evening.

Arlene Ellis-Schipper points out that the DFI identified breaks in the following sentence "No, she didn't." The first break comes before the word "she." The second break comes after the word "did." The resultant sentence on the 8-second Beta tape is "She did."

Rita turns to Frank Piazza, a voice analyst expert. Frank flashes graphs of one of the Skeeter tapes, the Skeeter tape tested by the DFI and the Dr. Phil tape. The graphs are telling. The graphs portray that the Dr. Phil tape has been edited. Its graph representation is some 40% the length of the other two tapes. Frank does state, however, that the other two tapes are similar, and their graphs display differences to account for the different words. Frank concurs with the changes in intonation. He points out that the Dr. Phil tape was sensationalized and edited. Also, he says that Deepak Kalpoe's responses were normal and not elevated in excitement.

Wendy Murphy, a constant lawyer with Rita, feels that regardless of the tapes, Deepak should be investigated. She misquotes a number of facts on the tapes to conclude Deepak is guilty. I am unsure whether or not Wendy even listened to the tape. She alludes that the Arubans are hiding something.

Arlene came in with the reason for the tape investigation being so thorough was that Dr. Phil used the tapes in order to call for a boycott of Aruba.

Wendy claimed that regardless of Dr. Phil's opinion, Beth Twitty was calling the boycott. And, according to Wendy, Beth is doing quite well with the boycott. Wendy described the boycott as American diplomacy!

Tonight, we heard the typical Wendy. She just spouts out without checking her data or reference point.

Arlene responded with Deepak Kalpoe remaining the main suspect in the case.

Beth Twitty came on next. She concurred with Rita that she was frustrated with the Aruban investigation. Her usual drugged, raped, murdered etc. chorus line managed to grace the conversation. Beth just confirmed that Deepak is canvassing publishers for $250,000.00 for book and movie rights over this case. Beth has some problem with a chaperone question in which Beth just says that Natalee was 18 years old and should have been in Carlos & Charlies. She does not blame the chaperones. With questions about the boat owned by Joran's friend, Beth provides some disparaging remarks, but caveats them with her usual "I don't know." Beth, likewise, cannot explain why all these girls did not come forward to charge Joran with rape.

Jossy comes on next to field a question about Joran having a credit line at the casinos. Jossy claims after 6 months and his snout-for-smut cannot that he cannot confirm whether or not Joran van der Sloot had a credit line at any casino. You know you can trust that answer! Also, Jossy has no knowledge about the release of Steve Croes, the ship's DJ.

Art Wood is next with more accusations about the incompetence of the Aruban authorities. Art contends that Deepak and Steve Croes are close friends. In support, Art says Deepak has Steve's phone number on his cell phone. Also, Art claims the FBI can open an investigation after the Aruban officials close theirs, and they can extradite these suspects to the USA. He claims the Arubans have refused the help of the FBI. I got the impression that Art just got out of a bar.

Comment: This tape was forged!

Greta of Fox News host Arlene Ellis-Schipper. Arlene repeats that the DFI's evaluation of the Skeeter tape with the breaks before She and after Did in the sentence "No, she didn't." Arlene emphasizes that the purpose of the tape evaluation was not to release Deepak Kalpoe as a suspect, it was to counter the argument for boycott that Dr. Phil used as a basis.

Greta announces that the Dr. Phil Show agreed to provide the unedited tape, used to create the 8-second Beta for tape for TV, to Fox News Greta On The Record; however, at the last minute, they declined to provide the unedited tape. Greta expressed her suspicions of the Dr. Phil Show.

Greta then asked Arlene who she felt was the culprit. Arlene refused to speculate. She said the FBI has had the tapes for two weeks now and has not forwarded their results to the Aruban authorities. Arlene concurred that the DFI results are final for Aruba; however, the hard drive will be the only recording usable, if anything, by the prosecution.

Greta calls her council: Hammer, Grimm, Williams and Brown. Brown says it all: the tape was edited for content that means it was doctored. We should boycott Dr. Phil.

Hammer questions Dr. Phil's offer to provide the unedited version of the tape. He mentions the hard drive will sort all this out. He claims Deepak Kalpoe will own the Dr. Phil Show.

Williams is succinct: you gotta be stuck on stupid to believe these tapes were not doctored. Ted feels someone is lying. He feels Dr. Phil has lost all credibility. Also, he says he spoke with Jamie Skeeter, and Skeeter told Ted that Deepak Kalpoe said "She did."

Greta feels the FBI is too slow with this second check.

Grimm commented that he listened to the tapes some 50 times, at home on his computer, and he feels that he hears Deepak say: "I did. She didn't." Grimm feels those two sentences could not exist together and imply an affirmative.

Brown claims that the tapes in themselves are insignificant, because you need other corroborating evidence in order to confirm the statement as a confession. However, now that we have tampering with evidence, it becomes extremely serious. Someone is cooked over this!

Comment: It seems unanimous, even with Greta, that the tapes have been doctored and serious fallout will ensue.

Posted for HarryTho

Posted by Richard at December 1, 2005 7:52 PM

"If you can't convince them, then confuse them"

I really believe this is what is NOW happening with these Skeeter tapes.

They were the basis for WEEKS on end to prove gang-rape, first played on Dr. Phil, then for weeks on end, little snippets on the infotainment channels, with Beth then putting her 2 cents in about how this proves her stance that her daughter was gang-raped~

Now that the Holland lab, comes back with the Dr. Phil tape was altered, manipulated, edited, choose the word you would like to use....there are now copies being played on different channels, and on Dan Abrams tonight, he stated that his crew went directly to Jamie Skeeters office...to get a copy RIGHT from his hard-drive. Ok..now apparently this hard-drive was picked up at 9:30 am, November 21st, by an FBI agent working out of the Ventura office. Jamie Skeeters stated that matter of factly, on every cable station that night. When confronted with that question BY Arlene, as to HOW that hard-drive could be in Jamie Skeeters office..Dan, just states, its all a mess, its all a mess. Another thing, wasn't Jamie going to send a copy of this tape to some Institute? Where are there findings? Why WON'T the FBI speak out and just merely say..........yes or no, we have/haven't ever received the hard-drive from Jamie Skeeters!

Now, of course Beth Twitty, is reverting to her famous line...that these tapes are "irrelevant" and once again TELLING the Aruban authorities that THEY shouldn't be concentrating on these tapes! HELLO??? She was adamament that these tapes would hold ENOUGH evidence for at least a rape conviction on those 3 suspects. NOW that the Dr. Phil tape has been PROVEN to have been (she likes the word edited, so we'll use that) EDITED, she doesn't feel they are important now or..er "relevant". Ok. The Holland lab, wasted valuable time and money, testing these tapes, that are now considered by BETH TWITTY to BE irrelevant? But they were just ONE week ago, when she said THEY proved rape, and that she was waiting on Holland's investigation to be done, so they could get on arresting those 3 young men again, for the gang rape of her daughter!! Why can't she just admit that SHE was duped as the rest of America was, and DENOUNCE what Dr Phil and Jamie Skeeters did to her? But does she? NO!! She still BELIEVES in Jamie Skeeter..and she still stands by HIS tape! Why then EVEN bother with wanting Holland to test them?

So now we have all these cable networks trying to confuse the hell out of the public..by playing 10 different tapes, all coming up with something different each time.

Enough!

The tapes aren't even worth talking about anymore. They are worthless to the people who would ACTUALLY benefit from them, the Aruban Authorities. To many "originals" and "copies" floating around out there. Who is to say that even what the DUTCH got, was THE original to begin with? A defense lawyers dream! And Beth keeps handing it to them on a silver platter!

I still want to know WHY, if there had been "evidence" on that taping of a conversation with Deepak Kalope, of a gang rape of a beautiful 18 yr old young woman, who went missing, and THIS investigator had this information to keep Joran in jail and the Kalope brothers re-arrested and detained, and all 3 charged with RAPE...that this investigator didn't hand that TAPE over to the PROPER authorities, in Aruba....in july?

WHY??

I will answer. Because Deepak Kalope NEVER stated he, Joran or Satish had sex with Natalee, in any way, shape or form that night. There was NO evidentiary value to the taped conversation.

And it was just two more parasites that latched onto a HIGH profile case, Dr. Phil, to boost his ratings, and Jamie Skeeters getting his 15 minutes of fame, and possibly fortune.

.........And none of these people TRULY care about helping to find out what happened to Natalee. Disgusting!

Posted by: Donna at December 1, 2005 9:41 PM

Succinctly, if you cannot trust the messager, how can you trust the message. We could say this case is over for Deepak Kalpoe.

----------------------

You really can't be serious here. Are you saying that the fact that the tape is false exonerates Deepak as a suspect? That is just crazy. And it flies in the face of what Dompig, who knows more about this case than any of us on the outside, said just recently. He is still bringing Deepak in regardless of the outcome of the tape and has recently said that he believes the boys are guilty
several times.

Why, in all seriousness, do you think it is that the FBI, ALE and pretty much everyone with intimate knowledge of this case believes the boys are responsible?

Posted by: DT at December 1, 2005 9:47 PM

DT,

First, explain why do YOU think (letting alone Dompig'd dubious hint on US TV-shows) that the FBI, ALE or anyone with intimate knowledge of this case believes the boys are responsible?

Then, how is it relevant to the subject of tape forgery?

Posted by: George at December 1, 2005 9:58 PM

"the FBI ... believes the boys are responsible"

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/seekinfo/holloway.htm : "no accusations of guilt or criminal involvement are inferred. No person(s) has been charged in Natalee Holloway's disappearance". Somehow I am sure the FBI would not be happy with a "belief" attributed to them by DT. :-)

Posted by: George at December 1, 2005 10:06 PM

DT,

First, explain why do YOU think (letting alone Dompig'd dubious hint on US TV-shows) that the FBI, ALE or anyone with intimate knowledge of this case believes the boys are responsible?

Then, how is it relevant to the subject of tape forgery?

Posted by: George at December 1, 2005 09:58 PM

It absolutely isn't relevant as to the subject of the tape forgery. Harry is the one saying it exonerates Deepak.

Second, why are Dompig's outright statements, not "hints", that he believes the boys are guilty left out? I would think that, as the chief, Dompig's opinion would be fairly representative of the feelings of the ALE, no? If not then I would refer you to the comments that Lt. Roy Tromp made back in August. He (Dompig)has also stated in other places that the FBI agrees with ALE in terms of their focus on the boys.

Posted by: DT at December 1, 2005 10:11 PM

"the FBI ... believes the boys are responsible"

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/seekinfo/holloway.htm : "no accusations of guilt or criminal involvement are inferred. No person(s) has been charged in Natalee Holloway's disappearance". Somehow I am sure the FBI would not be happy with a "belief" attributed to them by DT. :-)

Posted by: George at December 1, 2005 10:06 PM

Even Dompig has to acknowledge that someone is innocent until proven guilty, that doesn't mean he doesn't think they are looking in the right direction when they examine the boys. I can say someone is presumed innocent and at the same time say I believe they are responsible. There is no contradiction there.

Posted by: DT at December 1, 2005 10:14 PM

To all:

Exonerated in criminal law means acquittal or released from the charges. The DFI has determined that the tape used by Dr. Phil was edited for content (forgery). As I pointed out in my editorial, the forgery discredits not only the tapes but the person(s) handling the tapes.

As for the "guilt" comment made by Police Chief Dompig, in our last evening's editorial we mentioned that Joran's attorney filed a formal complaint against Police Chief Dompig for that irresponsible statement and is expecting the censure, or worse, of Police Chief Dompig. We could have a new police chief this week.

Support for the foregoing will accompany our Morning update to this evening's editorial.

This case against the three suspects is essentially over. It just needs time to unravel into a formal acquittal.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 1, 2005 11:00 PM

I remember Dompig saying he thinks the boys are guilty of **something**, but he isn't sure what.

It may just be that they know more than they have told.

Posted by: np at December 1, 2005 11:04 PM

This case against the three suspects is essentially over. It just needs time to unravel into a formal acquittal.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry [TypeKey Profile Page] at December 1, 2005 11:00 PM

Again, I'd like to know what your rationale is behind this statement. I would hope that you aren't being so illogical as to suggest that the failure of one piece of evidence to turn out means that all suspicion is thereby absolved. Dompig's statement that the boys were almost involved was not based on any part of the tape, so I fail to see how the forgery of the tape would effect conclusions that were already drawn from the knowledge of the case which Dompig possesses.

Posted by: DT at December 1, 2005 11:12 PM

DT posted, "that the failure of one piece of evidence to turn out means that all suspicion is thereby absolved"

Ummm, DT, what other 'evidence' is there? This was the only purported evidence that the suspects (plus the dragged-in father) did anything other than transport Natalee from C&C's to the Marriot Beach area.

It is pretty much a given that Natalee made it back to the Holiday Inn after the tryst with Joran (three witnesses reported seeing her there and Beth has downgraded K2J's nvolvement to gang-rape with alcohol-induced, in-and-out-of-consciousness (based on the doctored tape). With the tape proved to be not a confession but a construct, then K2J are guilty of nothing and those staying at the Holiday Inn are the natural, logical, next-in-line suspects.

Too bad, Beth. You've done it to yourself.

Posted by: Dayo Gould at December 1, 2005 11:29 PM

"It absolutely isn't relevant as to the subject of the tape forgery. Harry is the one saying it exonerates Deepak."

Sorry, I understood this after I made my post and before read all the other. I too was confused by THAT Harry's statement; however, Harry clarified it himself.

"Second, why are Dompig's outright statements, not "hints", that he believes the boys are guilty left out?"

Because without specification what they are thought guilty of it is at most a HINT; I definitely AM guilty, does it make you think that I am responsible Natalee Holloway disappearence?

"I would refer you to the comments that Lt. Roy Tromp made back in August."

Then I would refer you to the comments that Lt. Rudy made - he thinks that she ran-off.

"He (Dompig)has also stated in other places that the FBI agrees with ALE in terms of their focus on the boys."

I too agreed with it some long time back; later, however, some FBI guy suggested that other directions should better be explored.

Overall, I believe the forged tape could neither incriminate nor exonerate Deepak, but from references to feelings of "persons with intimate knowledge" I can recognize only those reflected by judges in their rulings.

Posted by: George at December 1, 2005 11:32 PM

"the FBI ... believes the boys are responsible"

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/seekinfo/holloway.htm : "no accusations of guilt or criminal involvement are inferred. No person(s) has been charged in Natalee Holloway's disappearance". Somehow I am sure the FBI would not be happy with a "belief" attributed to them by DT. :-)

Posted by: George at December 1, 2005 10:06 PM

Even Dompig has to acknowledge that someone is innocent until proven guilty, that doesn't mean he doesn't think they are looking in the right direction when they examine the boys. ...

Posted by: DT at December 1, 2005 10:14 PM

To the best of my knowledge, Dompig's beliefs do not necessary represent those of FBI.

Posted by: George at December 1, 2005 11:38 PM

-----------------------------------
"I would refer you to the comments that Lt. Roy Tromp made back in August."

Then I would refer you to the comments that Lt. Rudy made - he thinks that she ran-off.

------------------------

I would refer you to the fact that Lt. Rudy stated he was not involved in the investigation, and that Lt. Tromp is the lead detective on the case. Who do you think would be in a better position to make such a statement?

--------------------------
"He (Dompig)has also stated in other places that the FBI agrees with ALE in terms of their focus on the boys."

I too agreed with it some long time back; later, however, some FBI guy suggested that other directions should better be explored.

---------------------------------

I don't believe I have ever heard of this FBI guy. In fact, I don't think the FBI has officially commented on the actualy investigative portion of the case. The only source I have for there feelings is Dompig, who said they agreed with the focus being on the three boys. I really can't contest what the FBI agent supposedly said, since I have never heard it myself. Do you remember where it was said?

--------------
Overall, I believe the forged tape could neither incriminate nor exonerate Deepak, but from references to feelings of "persons with intimate knowledge" I can recognize only those reflected by judges in their rulings.

Posted by: George at December 1, 2005 11:32 PM
-----------

I agree with you on the first part, but I see no reason to dismiss the comments made by Tromp and Dompig. They are saying that they believe the boys are invovled, and from that I can only conclude there is some evidence or circumstances to suggest this. My point in all of this was simply to dispute Harry's contention that the failure of the tapes exonerates Deepak.

Posted by: DT at December 1, 2005 11:47 PM

To the best of my knowledge, Dompig's beliefs do not necessary represent those of FBI.

Posted by: George at December 1, 2005 11:38 PM

Perphaps not, but it does represent what he was told by the FBI. Unless, of course, you want to dispute his credibility.

Posted by: DT at December 1, 2005 11:50 PM

Harry, I have an important question. On Rita Cosby tonight, that Art Wood character said the FBI could extridite the three suspects to America and try them here because they are suspected of killing an American citizen. No one on that worthless program corrected him, including the disbarred Wendy Murphy. I don't believe they can be extridicted. Can you confirm this?

Posted by: flightoffancy at December 1, 2005 11:51 PM

DT:

We are not talking about a simple failure of evidence. You need to shake that notion free from your consciousness. We are talking about a forgery of evidence. The defense has won this case, before it even commences. Just to make an obvious point, there exists no other evidence against the three suspects. Beth Twitty's constant accusatory barrages do not qualify.

This case is cooked!

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 1, 2005 11:56 PM

DT posted, "that the failure of one piece of evidence to turn out means that all suspicion is thereby absolved"

Ummm, DT, what other 'evidence' is there? This was the only purported evidence that the suspects (plus the dragged-in father) did anything other than transport Natalee from C&C's to the Marriot Beach area.

It is pretty much a given that Natalee made it back to the Holiday Inn after the tryst with Joran (three witnesses reported seeing her there and Beth has downgraded K2J's nvolvement to gang-rape with alcohol-induced, in-and-out-of-consciousness (based on the doctored tape). With the tape proved to be not a confession but a construct, then K2J are guilty of nothing and those staying at the Holiday Inn are the natural, logical, next-in-line suspects.

Too bad, Beth. You've done it to yourself.

Posted by: Dayo Gould at December 1, 2005 11:29 PM

I'd encourage you to read Dan Riehl's site, where he comments that there are witnesses who claim Joran bragged that all three had sex with Natalee at the lighthouse. I think one could interpret this as perhaps being evidence that there was more than just a simple transportation.

But even if you ignore that you still have the lie, which would qualify as circumstantial evidence. For another piece of circumstantial evidence you can check out Roger's site under the section where he discusses the two exculpatory statements made by the boys as evidence of guilt.

And you still have to contend with the fact that the ALE has made several statements indicating they believe the boys are invovled, even as recently as this week. If there was absolutely no indication these boys were involved after all this time do you think they would still feel this way?

My point in listing all of this is that there is clearly some evidence, though perhaps not hard physical evidence.

And I don't believe that it is at all a given that Natalee made it back to the holiday inn. No credible source I am aware of has made such a claim to my knowledge.

Posted by: DT at December 1, 2005 11:58 PM

Monsieur Harry,
Think for the sex trade in Venezuela, traders do not force women. In most of the cases they go voluntarly, because they give them a VERY lucrative life. Latin America they have very nice women. Think a Man would prefered to show off. Natalee with all the respect did not have anything out of extraordinary.
In the link that George sent think they are omitting the fact that some MBKs saw Natalee after being seen with J & K2.
By miracle, her cell phone appeared in her room. In addition, I believe it was not all her luggage (back pack and some hand bags) funny for her social level not even a samsonite.
I keep on believing that Mansur and the Twittys are playing a mayor role.
Donna, IMO Beth needs psychiatric help, I mentioned before that this woman either has a post traumatic or personality disorder.
Hope Natalee just ran away and she is having a good life.
I Hope Skeeters did well in the poligraph

Posted by: antoinette at December 2, 2005 12:00 AM

They are saying that they believe the boys are invovled, and from that I can only conclude there is some evidence or circumstances to suggest this.

Posted by: DT at December 1, 2005 11:47 PM

I don't think that is a valid assumption for the simple reason that none of us know anything about the two individuals you are talking about. Neither man has produced any evidence to back up their statements.
And what, if any, was their motive for making the statements?
Do they have an agenda?
How much experience do they have investigating this type of crime?
Why would you take their word over Rudy's?

Posted by: Max at December 2, 2005 12:00 AM

Monsieur Harry,
Think for the sex trade in Venezuela, traders do not force women. In most of the cases they go voluntarly, because they give them a VERY lucrative life. Latin America they have very nice women. Think a Man would prefered to show off. Natalee with all the respect did not have anything out of extraordinary.
In the link that George sent think they are omitting the fact that some MBKs saw Natalee after being seen with J & K2.
By miracle, her cell phone appeared in her room. In addition, I believe it was not all her luggage (back pack and some hand bags) funny for her social level not even a samsonite.
I keep on believing that Mansur and the Twittys are playing a mayor role.
Donna, IMO Beth needs psychiatric help, I mentioned before that this woman either has a post traumatic or personality disorder.
Hope Natalee just ran away and she is having a good life.
I Hope Skeeters did well in the poligraph

Posted by: antoinette at December 2, 2005 12:01 AM

DT:

We are not talking about a simple failure of evidence. You need to shake that notion free from your consciousness. We are talking about a forgery of evidence. The defense has won this case, before it even commences. Just to make an obvious point, there exists no other evidence against the three suspects. Beth Twitty's constant accusatory barrages do not qualify.

This case is cooked!

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry [TypeKey Profile Page] at December 1, 2005 11:56 PM

I'm well aware of that Harry, and it doesn't in any way, shape, or form exonerate the boys. Whether evidence was tampered with, invented, or destroyed has nothing to do with the guilt or innocence of the boys. And it is not an obvious point. There is circumstantial evidence, and we also have the dual exculpatory statements as evidence, as Roger pointed out on his site.

And I would caution that you are pracitcally accusing the ALE of gross incompetence if you believe they still feel the boys are involved after all this time if you feel there is absolutely no evidence against the boys.

Posted by: DT at December 2, 2005 12:04 AM

Dear flightoffancy:

In order to be extradicted, the persons sought for extradition would have to have committed a crime in the United States of America. In order to extradict someone, that someone has to have fled to another country other than one in which he is wanted. And, both countries would have to have a treaty in place authorizing extradition.

In this case, the crime (if any) was committed in the Kingdom of the Netherlands. Yet, the suspects (not convicted) have remained within the Kingdom of the Netherlands. Extradition, in this sense, is meaningless.

Art Wood has expressed what Art Wood usually expresses.

Succinctly, flightoffancy, the answer is "No!"

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 2, 2005 12:11 AM

I don't think that is a valid assumption for the simple reason that none of us know anything about the two individuals you are talking about. Neither man has produced any evidence to back up their statements.
And what, if any, was their motive for making the statements?
Do they have an agenda?
How much experience do they have investigating this type of crime?
Why would you take their word over Rudy's?

Posted by: Max at December 2, 2005 12:00 AM

Well how can we believe anything in this case if we can't trust the ALE? I mean if these guys had it out for the boys then I doubt they would have been able to go free.

And Rudy was not involved in the investigation, Tromp and Dompig are. That is why I find them credible and Rudy irrelevant.

Posted by: DT at December 2, 2005 12:13 AM

DT:

Please do not quote another site here as some kind of standard or imply that our site is somehow subservient to any other site. If I desired to consider what another site may contend, I would have done so. If you feel that an another site is providing for your anxieties and aspirations than I suggest that you spend more time debating the points (if any) of this case with that site.

By the way, exculpate refers to a release from some form of liability. I add this to assist you with what the other site may be saying.

As for the Aruban law enforcement, this case may have passed beyond even their best efforts, despite their best efforts. The forgery destroys their ability to prosecute (successfully). This case can only proceed with an accredited confession.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 2, 2005 12:33 AM

"I don't believe I have ever heard of this FBI guy. In fact, I don't think the FBI has officially commented on the actualy investigative portion of the case. ... Do you remember where it was said?"

No, I don't, it certainly was NOT an official comment; we're now talking about their "feeling"... I think they did a few official statements, but none suggesting what they think or feel happened.

"My point in all of this was simply to dispute Harry's contention that the failure of the tapes exonerates Deepak."

We are in agreement on THIS point.

"I'd encourage you to read Dan Riehl's site"

If anyone doesn't know, its NH chat is now at http://www.riehlworldview.com/test_blog/

"In the link that George sent think they are omitting the fact that some MBKs saw Natalee after being seen with J & K2."

What link? Who is omitting? Perhaps I could fill...

Posted by: George at December 2, 2005 12:39 AM

Essentially Harry, all these Aruban Judges released the suspects. Another bunch of Aruban Judges ruled in favor of the suspect's father. Now these two occurrences are now sort of the "facts" we now have concerning this case. You would like to think that the Judges would not have released the suspects if they had evidence to keep them further incarcerated.
So we have to assume that there is no concrete evidence that the prosecutor can use to bring the suspect's to trial at this time. Saying this doesn't mean that you don't think that "the suspect's know something more" or even "that the suspect's are not guilty of something" but, without evidence, as I understand their system, a case cannot be moved forward. As I understand it, if you bring a weak case and you lose that is that, so, since the prosecutor has two full years to bring a case, it makes sense that one has not been brought. They gather evidence meticulously.
I have gleaned that the evidence cannot be tainted in any way for the case to be a winner. It makes sense that the prosecutor isn't talking. I realize many are saying that evidence was tampered with and gotten rid of but if you refer back to the original newspaper articles on this case it seems that the FBI was involved from the very beginning. Why doesn't anyone trust the FBI? I realize that the young woman's mother is saying they did not see the tapes of the interrogations but the newspapers say they were there in person so why should they look at the tapes?
I keep wondering what the agendas are of everyone involved in this situation. What are they all trying to accomplish? Everyone appears to be at odds with everyone else. All the stake holders are creating chaos. What is the point of this? Two weeks ago they were saying that everyone needed to be reinterviewed. That is probably a good thing. Once they clear the family and the fellow travelers and possibly, the suspects then they can begin investigating other scenarios. With everything you have brought up, these other scenarios do not seem so unfeasible anymore. And if you put your suggestion of dark hair, speaking apanish with the Diaro reporter who was following the girl to the house where a helcopter retrieved her and several others well hmmm that is only one of the roads all of your meticulous reporting and commentary have suggested. The first thing that has to happen, however, is that everyone has to stop holding onto their beliefs about this case as if they were untouchable. the fact is, until this kid is found and brought home, every idea is up for criticism, every road should be followed and all the agendas should be put aside in favor of searching for the truth.
The circus has got to stop. They have to start really, seriously looking for this kid. Harry, what do you think is going on at this point? What are their motives? What are their agendas? You would think everyone would want the truth but it doesn't look that way does it?

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at December 2, 2005 2:14 AM

I managed to sit through a Nancy Grace show last night (Dec 1), only because Nancy had a guest host. The show concentrated on the interview of Deepak Kalpoe by "Skeeter". Beth was on the show of course, from Birmingham. She's home. Does she feel safer there right now than being on the road? She looked as if she was ready to collapse as well.

She apparently has watched a copy of a copy of "Skeeter's" hard drive. She was asked if she saw Deepak Kalpoe's head shake a suggestive "no" when he was asked "I'm sure that she all had sex with you", and he answered "No she didn't" .. she paused, ignored the question, and told the audience instead that what the DFI is claiming about the statement "You wouldn't believe how simple it would have been that night" is actually "You wouldn't believe how simple it WAS THAT NIGHT". Then the show played the AUDIO (Why didn't they play the actual video, instead of just the audio???) and Deepak Kalpoe answers "You wouldn't believe how simple it was that night" .... what the hell is this? MORE tampering?

Arlene Schippper (sp) was on the phone and contested this, commenting that what the DFI has states from Deepak Kalpoe: "You wouldn't believe how simple it would have been that night".

Before I go on, what is it that some of us see from this broadcast? A concensus was drawn on the show, (more or less for the simple reason that it wasn't contested) that the hard drive from "Skeeter's" computer is the key, but apparently, nobody knows where the hard drive is right now. Do you believe this? They're hoping it's in the hands of the FBI!!!

"Skeeter" supposedly called a guest on the show while they were at commercial to remind him that what the Dutch have is a COPY of the original, a copy that could be damaged. And get this - "Skeeter" claimed to his friend (forget his name) on the show that he now stands behind the dr phil version, that it is authentic!!

Skeeter wasn't available for comment and neither were the dr phil people at the time of the taping of this show.

This is typical american protocol in a scenario like this. You don't know how glad I am to be a born and raised Canadian.I grew up watching reports on the murders of 4 Kent State students for protesting the Vietnam war ... Watergate ... A rigged election by the cia in Chile .. another one in Australia, one their allies. I grew up with the cold war. My father built a small bomb shelter under our patio in the 60's. The americans came so close to being broke in the early 70's because of this cold war and the vietnam war on top of it that they had to take themselves off the gold standard. In 1976 ... never mind. What's the point.

For some of you americans who are on this Natalee Holloway fantasy, this case is no different than the two cases that were reported on the Nancy Grace show a couple of weeks ago ... two women are missing from two different small towns. A beauty queen, from one town, has been missing for 30 days. The other woman is a young mother who has been gone for more than 90 days and was last seen with her estranged husband. The show concentrated (with nancy screaming of course) on the fact that the police were not doing anything to solve these two cases. Family and friends were hounding the police in these two small towns to do something. The father of the missing young mother told our beloved Nancy that he was going to have to get a second job to pay for the private investigator that he'd hired because the police weren't doing anything to find his daughter. (Does any of this sound familiar?) You bet it does. Only difference is, this poor man doesn't have any connections to get the american people to throw money all over him to help him pay for a private investigator and live in nice hotels every day. Did you watch that show Beth?

A funny thing as well .. Nancy screamed for 3 months about the small police force in Aruba not being able to solve this case. Now she's screaming about two other small AMERICAN police forces that haven't solved missing persons cases as well. You know Nancy, it's in bad taste that you decided to air a show like this after you pointed fingers and sarcastically harassed the Aruban police force for over three months. Let us just say, it's bad for business. I find it hugely amusing that for this show about the "Skeeter" controversy that Nancy decided to take the night off. After all, she aired the same tape that dr phil did not long after, with "Skeeter" in tow as well.

Well for all you southern people who are flying along behind Beth Twitty's seemingly hypnotic magic carpet ride, let's give you the juice. Interview or no interview (the dr phil tape isn't even admissable in an Aruban courtroom), this case has reverted to square one. The Aruban police may have not been ready for this missing persons case. They may well have gotten off on the wrong foot with it. Well, that's something you're just going to have to accept, whether you like it or not. It's like your big toenail falling off. Stuff happens and it's not always to your liking. The strong survive in this world for many reasons and one of them is acceptance of life. People who can't accept things in life, especially about themselves, can become neurotic. People who accept the things in life that they don't wish to, become stronger for it. Those that choose not to, become weaker. Ask your local psychologist.

At any rate, this case ended months ago when the three suspects in question were released for lack of evidence. To date, there is no evidence to charge anyone with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. There is no dead body. Because of this fact, there is no DNA evidence to link the body with anyone on this planet. Until her body is found, or she walks back into the world on her own accord, this case will never be solved.


Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 2, 2005 3:22 AM

Harry, I have an important question. On Rita Cosby tonight, that Art Wood character said the FBI could extridite the three suspects to America and try them here because they are suspected of killing an American citizen. No one on that worthless program corrected him, including the disbarred Wendy Murphy. I don't believe they can be extridicted. Can you confirm this?

Answer: No crime has teken place against US law. As a matter of international comity, US law leaves overseas killings, even of US citizens, in the hands of local authorities, except where the US takes a special national interest, as in the killing of the President overseas or other high government officials. So J2K could not be extradited, as there's nothing to charge them with in the US.

Posted by: Gary at December 2, 2005 4:49 AM

Please be advised the Arubans have no horse in this race when it comes to doctoring tapes. What value would that be to them? They just want this whole thing over. BUT, WHO DOES HAVE SOME REASON TO DOCTOR THE TAPES? That's right, kiddies, it's Skeeters, Dr. Phil, and Beth Holloway. Any and all of them, for some crazy reason, feel it's necessary to get on with life to make sure these three young men GO TO JAIL forever for the RAPE? AND DISAPPEARANCE? of Natalee Holloway. Why this is the imperative, I don't know. Can't really understand. If it were my daughter, I'd want THE REAL CULPRITS (IF THERE ARE ANY CULPRITS) to be arrested and prosecuted! Go figure...

betsy

Posted by: betsy at December 2, 2005 7:44 AM

Bottom Line is Beth Twitty is the one that has ruined this case ALL BY HERSELF! She is the one that opened her mouth and told everything she knew and was told. She needed to at least let the Aruban Authorities try to do there job on their own. Pushing them is one thing, hounding is another. Messing with any evidence is grounds for THROWING that evidence down the drain. You don't get convictions from suspicions, you get them from HARD EVIDENCE and there isn't any.

Posted by: Sue at December 2, 2005 9:51 AM

Betsy

I agree with you on the 3 culprits. Maybe that's why Beth has retained John Q Kelly as legal counsel.

Uncle

Posted by: Uncle Ben at December 2, 2005 11:06 AM

harry:
thanks for an interesting update.saved me a lot of time going into the archives

thanks also to you & dan riehl: last night i switched on the tv & realized.....due to your hard work i don't have to watch this crap anymore!

:)

Posted by: chip at December 2, 2005 11:33 AM

Bottom Line is Beth Twitty is the one that has ruined this case ALL BY HERSELF! She is the one that opened her mouth and told everything she knew and was told. She needed to at least let the Aruban Authorities try to do there job on their own. Pushing them is one thing, hounding is another. Messing with any evidence is grounds for THROWING that evidence down the drain. You don't get convictions from suspicions, you get them from HARD EVIDENCE and there isn't any.

Posted by: Sue at December 2, 2005 09:51 AM

Actually I agree only part way, that Beth ruined this case all by herself. I think what happened with Beth, is that she was so hell bent on making sure these 3 boys were convicted, that it overshadowed any common sense, and clouded her judgement, and allowed others to incorporate themselves into this case, with a promise they all will help her "get em". Starting with Jossy Mansur, who had is own hidden agenda to get back at the Aruban govt. Art Wood, who attached himself, because we now know what his agenda was, that was to get fame and write a book. And others, who seem to want attachment on this case only to get their 15 mins of fame! Now I do not know the REASON other than he is a millionaire, that she would allege herself with Joe Mammana...but who knows what he has promised her in lieu of helping to repair his reputation, by giving her money, and possibly getting revenge/vengence for her.. But when it is all said and done, and the story doesn't get much airtime,( just like Chandra Levy case, never solved, but no one reports on the case anymore) these people that have attached themselves to Beth like barnacles....will drop her..and try to infuse themselves into the next HIGH profile case.

Posted by: Donna at December 2, 2005 2:19 PM

We are experiencng some problems updating, so here are the Rita Crosby and Greta Updates for last evening:

Rita Crosby of MSNBC News hosts Arlene Ellis-Schipper, Wendy Murphy and Frank Piazza (computer voice analyzer). Once again, we hear the Deepak Kalpoe statements with Jamie Skeeter. This time the voices on the tapes are more distinct in the two versions. And, they appear much closer than those we heard last evening.

Arlene Ellis-Schipper points out that the DFI identified breaks in the following sentence "No, she didn't." The first break comes before the word "she." The second break comes after the word "did." The resultant sentence on the 8-second Beta tape is "She did."

Rita turns to Frank Piazza, a voice analyst expert. Frank flashes graphs of one of the Skeeter tapes, the Skeeter tape tested by the DFI and the Dr. Phil tape. The graphs are telling. The graphs portray that the Dr. Phil tape has been edited. Its graph representation is some 40% the length of the other two tapes. Frank does state, however, that the other two tapes are similar, and their graphs display differences to account for the different words. Frank concurs with the changes in intonation. He points out that the Dr. Phil tape was sensationalized and edited. Also, he says that Deepak Kalpoe's responses were normal and not elevated in excitement.

Wendy Murphy, a constant lawyer with Rita, feels that regardless of the tapes, Deepak should be investigated. She misquotes a number of facts on the tapes to conclude Deepak is guilty. I am unsure whether or not Wendy even listened to the tape. She alludes that the Arubans are hiding something.

Arlene came in with the reason for the tape investigation being so thorough was that Dr. Phil used the tapes in order to call for a boycott of Aruba.

Wendy claimed that regardless of Dr. Phil's opinion, Beth Twitty was calling the boycott. And, according to Wendy, Beth is doing quite well with the boycott. Wendy described the boycott as American diplomacy!

Tonight, we heard the typical Wendy. She just spouts out without checking her data or reference point.

Arlene responded with Deepak Kalpoe remaining the main suspect in the case.

Beth Twitty came on next. She concurred with Rita that she was frustrated with the Aruban investigation. Her usual drugged, raped, murdered etc. chorus line managed to grace the conversation. Beth just confirmed that Deepak is canvassing publishers for $250,000.00 for book and movie rights over this case. Beth has some problem with a chaperone question in which Beth just says that Natalee was 18 years old and should have been in Carlos & Charlies. She does not blame the chaperones. With questions about the boat owned by Joran's friend, Beth provides some disparaging remarks, but caveats them with her usual "I don't know." Beth, likewise, cannot explain why all these girls did not come forward to charge Joran with rape.

Jossy comes on next to field a question about Joran having a credit line at the casinos. Jossy claims after 6 months and his snout-for-smut cannot that he cannot confirm whether or not Joran van der Sloot had a credit line at any casino. You know you can trust that answer! Also, Jossy has no knowledge about the release of Steve Croes, the ship's DJ.

Art Wood is next with more accusations about the incompetence of the Aruban authorities. Art contends that Deepak and Steve Croes are close friends. In support, Art says Deepak has Steve's phone number on his cell phone. Also, Art claims the FBI can open an investigation after the Aruban officials close theirs, and they can extradite these suspects to the USA. He claims the Arubans have refused the help of the FBI. I got the impression that Art just got out of a bar.

Comment: This tape was forged!

Greta of Fox News host Arlene Ellis-Schipper. Arlene repeats that the DFI's evaluation of the Skeeter tape with the breaks before She and after Did in the sentence "No, she didn't." Arlene emphasizes that the purpose of the tape evaluation was not to release Deepak Kalpoe as a suspect, it was to counter the argument for boycott that Dr. Phil used as a basis.

Greta announces that the Dr. Phil Show agreed to provide the unedited tape, used to create the 8-second Beta for tape for TV, to Fox News Greta On The Record; however, at the last minute, they declined to provide the unedited tape. Greta expressed her suspicions of the Dr. Phil Show.

Greta then asked Arlene who she felt was the culprit. Arlene refused to speculate. She said the FBI has had the tapes for two weeks now and has not forwarded their results to the Aruban authorities. Arlene concurred that the DFI results are final for Aruba; however, the hard drive will be the only recording usable, if anything, by the prosecution.

Greta calls her council: Hammer, Grimm, Williams and Brown. Brown says it all: the tape was edited for content that means it was doctored. We should boycott Dr. Phil.

Hammer questions Dr. Phil's offer to provide the unedited version of the tape. He mentions the hard drive will sort all this out. He claims Deepak Kalpoe will own the Dr. Phil Show.

Williams is succinct: you gotta be stuck on stupid to believe these tapes were not doctored. Ted feels someone is lying. He feels Dr. Phil has lost all credibility. Also, he says he spoke with Jamie Skeeter, and Skeeter told Ted that Deepak Kalpoe said "She did."

Greta feels the FBI is too slow with this second check.

Grimm commented that he listened to the tapes some 50 times, at home on his computer, and he feels that he hears Deepak say: "I did. She didn't." Grimm feels those two sentences could not exist together and imply an affirmative.

Brown claims that the tapes in themselves are insignificant, because you need other corroborating evidence in order to confirm the statement as a confession. However, now that we have tampering with evidence, it becomes extremely serious. Someone is cooked over this!

Comment: It seems unanimous, even with Greta, that the tapes have been doctored and serious fallout will ensue.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 2, 2005 2:54 PM

Harry...

I don't believe ANYTHING will come out about these tapes. No one is going to have to answer to anyone about doctoring tapes.

It'll all go down to nothing.

You think they are going to charge a "grieving mother" with fraud?

I highly doubt so.

Dr. Phil? He'll just let it all land on Jamie Skeeters lap.

Jamie Skeeters? He'll just say that he gave the Dr Phil the original tape to his show, and that someone editing must of been done, while in the hands of Dr Phils employees. He'll wash his hands of it.


I just find it HIGHLY ironic that at exactly the moment these "manipulated" tapes were found out, that Beth hires herself a pricey NYC attorney. She thought that bit of news was going to be the topic of the week, even her statement, the tapes are now irrelevant, and aruba bla bla blah...is not going to make the news anchors, stop investigating it now. Its like the proverbial pandoras box, has now been opened..and Beth is NOT liking it.

Who knows, she may BE very worried about what her part in all of this, however small or large, can back fire on HER. IF she paid....one cent to Jamie Skeeters, for him to get DEEPAK on tape...remember how she tried getting him to talk to her at the internet cafe, and he kept telling her that he could NOT speak to her. But she kept up trying with bribes, etc. The same M.O. that Jamie played on him.

IMO, All 3 parties are GUILTY. Jamie Skeeters, Beth Twitty, and Dr Phil. However try to find the trail..I bet they covered it well. No one will be charged with fraud in this case.


Meanwhile back at the ranch.........Natalee is still missing!

Posted by: Donna at December 2, 2005 3:42 PM

Dear Donna:

You need to reread what I took an effort to present over the last few days. Culpable inefficiency implicates Jamie Skeeter and Dr. Phil. Beth Twitty can escape, as long as, someone does not implicate her.

This is a felony and little different from bank robbery in implication. We do not need to verify whether or not Dr. Phil McGraw held a gun inside the bank and demanded money. The fact that he was among the bank robbers, holding guns and demanding money, inside the bank, and has admitted to being among them, suffices. The same holds for someone outside the bank providing the getaway car.

This is not a case of determining precisely who did it. Culpable inefficiency encompasses any ambiguity in this instance. The fact that Dr. Phil McGraw aired the forgery implicates him, because he should have known better. In order for Dr. Phil to extracate himself, he requires someone on his staff to fall on their sword and provide a sufficient confession, exculpating Dr. Phil. I doubt that is going to happen. Whatever the case, it will be difficult for Dr. Phil to escape the punitive and compensatory damage claims sure to be asked by Deepak Kalpoe. If I were Dr. Phil McGraw, I would try to settle with Deepak Kalpoe for the US $250,000.00 that he desires for a book deal and get a release from Deepak.

On another note, please keep in mind that the government of Aruba and all the businesses effected by the boycott that Dr. Phil McGraw set in motion will be eyeing his assets, as well.

The real horror comes if Oprah is required to pitch into the relief fund for Dr. Phil.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 2, 2005 4:02 PM

At any rate, this case ended months ago when the three suspects in question were released for lack of evidence. To date, there is no evidence to charge anyone with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. There is no dead body. Because of this fact, there is no DNA evidence to link the body with anyone on this planet. Until her body is found, or she walks back into the world on her own accord, this case will never be solved.

Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 2, 2005 03:22 AM

I agree, Jim. I also think it won't be long before the three suspects petition the court asking to be released as suspects; just like PVS did. I think the transparent "doctoring" of the Skeeter tapes will play a large part in the judge's decision.

Posted by: Max at December 2, 2005 7:44 PM

To All:

We have not got our editorial out this evening. It appears we are experiencing difficulties again. Here are the recaps for tonight on the cable news networks:

The main news is that the Dr. Phil Show has issued a statement that: 1) they stand by the accuracy of their airing of the 8-second Beta tape; 2) an independent audio expert has confirmed the accuracy of their airing; and 3) Jamie Skeeter has confirmed their airing to be consistent with his unedited tape that he presented to the Dr. Phil Show.

In opposition, voice analysis expert, Frank Piazza, confirms that the Dr. Phil Show tape was edited for content and sensationalism. Greta of Fox News questions the Dr. Phil Show neglecting to provide them a copy of their tape, as promised, and receiving just a statement.

In my opinion, I agree with Criminal Defense Attorney Ted Williams that the statement from the Dr. Phil Show is merely spin. And, I agree with Greta and her panel: if what Dr. Phil Show contends is true, then they should put up or shut up. Give a copy of their unedited Skeeter tape to Greta for her evaluation.

This may be our last posting, as this case seems to have devoured itself.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 2, 2005 10:52 PM

Harry, do you think our fabulous FBI will every come out and say what they think of these so called original tapes? Skeeter most likely copied his final version of the interview onto a NEW hard drive to send to the FBI, if in fact he ever sent it to begin with. There is something rotten here and it's not in Aruba. I want to know why the highly touted FBI has been so silent and why it would take them so long to analyze a simple hard drive or CD. You would think they had something to gain in the on going media rating circus.

Posted by: flightoffancy at December 2, 2005 11:58 PM

Dear flightoffancy:

First, the FBI has to contend with the State Department in this fiasco. I suspect that the FBI already has evaluated the Skeeter tapes. Actually, I suspect that the FBI had the results prior to sending the tapes down to Aruba in the first place. Regrettably, due to their usual "I got a secret" demeanor, they now find themselves on a powder keg of controversy. I believe the State Department will be required to mitigate the Dr. Phil Show adventure with the Kingdom of the Netherlands.

We must recall that Jamie Skeeter taped the conversation between Deepak Kalpoe and him without Deepak Kalpoe knowledge or permission ... a crime in the Kingdom of the Netherlands. The crime occurred in the Kingdom of the Netherlands. All of a sudden the extradition calls of Art Wood realize with Jamie Skeeter. In a sense, if the FBI confirms the tapes, either way, they are confirming that Jamie Skeeter conducted the illegal taping in Aruba. Now comes the forgery issue aired all over the world. Via the USA - Kingdom of the Netherlands Treaty on extradition, the State Department may be compelled to offer Jamie Skeeter up to the Aruban authorities. Wouldn't this be a mess?

Lastly, maybe you could consider lowering the bar on the miraculous in the case of our FBI.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 3, 2005 12:47 AM

Lastly, maybe you could consider lowering the bar on the miraculous in the case of our FBI.

Obviously you missed my sarcasm. I have the same feelings about the FBI that most local police departments do, "They couldn't find a whore in a whorehouse." I believe our FBI has too much political influence to be an effective law enforcement agency. I don't see how they can tract terrorists and their e-mails and internet connections when they can't analysis a simple COPY of a tape and give their findings of "Without the original devise we can make no ruling on the authenticity of this tape copy". Why they are letting this drag out with BEth as their spokesperson is beyond me. I have e-mailed them and gave them my opinion of their ex-agents. Letting them know, with agents like Copus and VanZandt, it's no wonder 911 happened. This country is in big time trouble if those individuals are a sample of what we have protecting this country.

Posted by: flightoffancy at December 3, 2005 1:13 AM

Riley has called for a travel boycott of Aruba and The Netherlands. The Netherlands demanded to withdraw this announcement. Then, the Netherlands got a very poor answer of the US state department to the ambassador B. van Eennenaam.
I guess we should ask Riley if the Alabama based Aviation Development Corps "kidnapped" Natalee in order to stir up some other nasty South American game.

When people are looking at the possibilities of sexslavery, murder by 3 boys without criminal records and runaway by herself all alone, I guess you could also look at this.

Posted by: Hollandaise at December 4, 2005 8:26 AM



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