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November 26, 2005
There's torture, and then there's TORTURE: Apples are not Oranges!
Topics: War on Terror - the issues.Death always came after weeks of torture. "Sometimes we would hang them upside down and beat their feet with clubs. Or we would electrocute them," he said. "One of the worst things was putting 10 people in a one-square-metre room for weeks. They had a brief break every day and were allowed the toilet every three days," he said. - Sadaam Hussein executionerWe constantly hear the vociferous drone of the Left accusing the U.S. of torture, secret prisons, and worse. While I'm not in favor of torture as we think of it in the context of historical norms and what is commonly known about Nazi, Soviet, the Japanese during WW-II, and of some Middle Eastern countries, I personally have no problem with the methods described here when restricted to extraordinary uses for dangerous prisoners with potentially life-saving information. I'm not qualified to offer an opinion on whether such methods work or not, that's not the issue I'm addressing.
The issue that has me steamed is one of relativeness, and what amounts to trying to compare apples to oranges. Accusing the U.S. of torture in the same breath as Sadaam Hussein and other tyrants in the Middle East, Nazi Germany, and the old Soviet empire, is like relating a mole hill to the Swiss Alps (we're talking about 2005, I have no doubt that we were a wee bit more aggressive in the past).
You cannot relate what the U.S. methods are to those of what currently goes on in other countries all over the world, and particularly in the Middle East. As a matter of fact, if the CIA really wants information out of someone in a hurry, they send the prisoner to a Middle Eastern country such s Egypt, Syria, and Jordan, among them - that extract information much more quickly than the more benign interrogation methods of the CIA (called outsourcing).
I'm quess I'm just simply tired of hearing about U.S. "torturing" prisoners at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere, when what the U.S. is accused of doing at Abu Ghraib, for example, amounts to nothing more than "silliness" when compared to the very real torture of Saddaam Hussein.
Let's take a look at what Saddaam's executioner has to say (hat tip Mac at In The Bullpen)
Recalling his time as a hangman at Iraq's notorious Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad in the 1980s, Abu Hussein said a new batch of political prisoners was brought in without charge every week.And looking at other "Saddaam methods described by others such as:Deserters from Iraq's war with Iran faced the firing squad. Prisoners who had insulted Saddam were hanged because it was crueller, said Abu Hussein, who declined to give his full name.
"A firing squad is more compassionate because people usually died immediately. But hanging is cruel because it can take time to die. If they don't die, we started over again," he said.
Prisoners in red uniforms and with black hoods over their heads were asked if they had a last request as the noose was tightened.
Death always came after weeks of torture.
"Sometimes we would hang them upside down and beat their feet with clubs. Or we would electrocute them," he said.
"One of the worst things was putting 10 people in a one-square-metre room for weeks. They had a brief break every day and were allowed the toilet every three days," he said.
Three executions were carried out each Monday and Thursday. One day Saddam's feared son Uday showed up and asked about eight political prisoners standing nearby. He ordered their immediate execution, said Abu Hussein.
Abu Hussein, a father of three, said watching men writhe in agony as they died sometimes made him cry. But he said nobody could afford to defy orders in Saddam's Iraq.
"We would have been killed on the spot. One time this executioner was one hour late in hanging someone and he was himself hanged.
..... rape, breaking of limbs, and denial of food and water are commonplace in Iraqi detention centers. Saddam Hussein's regime has also invented unique and horrific methods of torture including electric shocks to a male's genitals, pulling out fingernails, suspending individuals from rotating ceiling fans, dripping acid on a victim's skin, gouging out eyes, and burning victims with a hot iron or blowtorch.Now compare Sadaam's methods with those purported to be methods used by the CIA:
1. The Attention Grab: The interrogator forcefully grabs the shirt front of the prisoner and shakes him.I'd be embarassed to be caught trying to compare the two above sets of examples.2. Attention Slap: An open-handed slap aimed at causing pain and triggering fear.
3. The Belly Slap: A hard open-handed slap to the stomach. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage.
4. Long Time Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions.
5. The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees. Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.
6. Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.
So, please tell me how in the hell you can compare a "Belly Slap, Long-Time Standing, A Cold Cell, or Water Boarding" with hanging, electrocution, rape, breaking of limbs, and denial of food and water, electric shocks to a male's genitals, pulling out fingernails, suspending individuals from rotating ceiling fans, dripping acid on a victim's skin, gouging out eyes, and burning victims with a hot iron or blowtorch?
And let's not forget the Islamist's favorite - chopping off heads and limbs, and slaughtering those that don't believe in their version of Islam (which may or may not be the ONLY Islam - who knows at this point!).
Remember, I'm talking about comparison here, not whether any method of "inconveniencing" prisoners or actually "torturing" prisoners works or not. You cannot compare what the U.S. is alleged to do (and I have no doubt that we do), with what is done by the rest of the world. The U.S. IS multiple grades apart from the rest AND IS at a higher standard, ALREADY!!!
Related reading - The Truth about Torture
Posted by Richard at November 26, 2005 8:34 AM
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