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November 30, 2005

HarryTho 11/30 Natalee Holloway Commentary

Topics: Natalee Holloway

Earlier today, a poster discounted the effectiveness of culpable inefficiency, because, as he put it, the social reference was as corrupt as the act perpetrated by Dr. Phil and company. This specifics of his argument I will omit and concentrate on the crux.

In my last two evening's posts, I explored the vocabulary which could be employed to criticize the actions of Jamie Skeeter and Dr. Phil McGraw in forging the tapes of the conversation with Deepak Kalpoe. What I will do tonight is expand that vocabulary and included a few more participants.

The critical incident, involving the forged, 8-second Beta tape occurs on the Dr. Phil Show. There were prior airings; however, it is in this particular airing in which Dr. Phil vies for authentication. In order to persuade his audience, as to the incriminating evidence contained within the 8-second Beta tape, Dr. Phil McGraw props his stage with familiar faces, well-accredited by the American audience: Jamie Skeeter (former police chief and polygraphist), Harold Copus (former FBI agent), Clint van Zandt (former FBI kidnapping investigator and MSNBC News analyst), Ty Ritter (kidnapping liberator) and Beth Twitty (a commanding figure in the case). With the props on stage, Dr. Phil airs the forged, 8-second video of Deepak Kalpoe admitting to multiple sexual encounters with the an "easy-virtue" victim. With the tacit affirmation of the props, Dr. Phil passes his forged, 8-second video to the American audience. At no time do any of the props, especially Jamie Skeeter who taped the conversation with Deepak Kalpoe, object to any of the forged content.

Many of us would simply assume that personages like Clint van Zandt, Harold Copus, Ty Ritter and Beth Twitty were duped by Dr. Phil McGraw. Our earlier discussion of culpable inefficiency does not seem to apply to any of these props. Certainly, we would be hard-pressed to claim that Clint van Zandt, Harold Copus, Ty Ritter or Beth Twitty actively participated in the forgery of the tapes.

Even though none of these personages could be positively linked to any wrongdoing, I believe that we can ascertain that each of these props were on Dr. Phil's stage for a specific purpose. After all, TJ Ward and Art Wood were not on the stage, yet both of these private investigators conducted extensive research into the case. TJ Ward and Art Wood, clearly, out-researched Clint van Zandt and Harold Copus by months of on-scene investigations. It is important that we distinguish why TJ Ward and Art Wood were omitted by Dr. Phil.

TJ Ward and Art Wood do not possess the credibility factor required by Dr. Phil's agenda. TJ Ward and Art Wood, though competent in investigative respects, do not possess the FBI-like accreditation of Clint van Zandt and Harold Copus. Furthermore, Art Wood was the alleged author of the infamous letter to the Aruban Attorney General requesting the removal of the main investigative team. TJ Ward was too connected to Beth Twitty. Whereas, Clint van Zandt and Harold Copus possessed career FBI credentials and had remained reserved and professional throughout the case. In short, the American audience trusted Clint van Zandt and Harold Copus to be fair and balanced. With Clint van Zandt and Harold Copus on Dr. Phil's stage, a sense of surety prevailed in what was presented would be accurate. Clint van Zandt and Harold Copus were on Dr. Phil's stage for credibility. TJ Ward and Art Wood could not provide that same sense of credibility. This no dig against TJ Ward nor Art Wood. It is a simple fact that an FBI agent's presence provides more assurances.

So what? Dr. Phil McGraw employed two former FBI agents.

Certainly, we must consider that two career FBI agents would have apprised their participation on the Dr. Phil Show for this precise purpose. After all, they are both career FBI investigators. They are not average, everyday Americans. Their appearance on the Dr. Phil Show should have trigger a sense of concern to insure whatever that they were ascertaining as props was accurate. I believe it is safe to assume that Clint van Zandt and Harold Copus were paid to be on Dr. Phil's stage. By being paid, as well as being propped for credibility, Clint van Zandt and Harold Copus assumed a sense of culpability for their assurances.

The culpability approaches the context that we discussed last evening; however, rather than cling to a concept of position, we have to ratchet our focus down to a phrase referred to as "due diligence." Due diligence refers to a prerequisite performance prior to an assurance. Many executives fully appreciate the phrase due diligence. For our readers unfamiliar with the phrase, in a simple exhibit, due diligence refers in a sense to verifying the preflight checklist prior to requesting permission to takeoff from the control tower. In another sense, due diligence is a mini-function of culpable inefficiency. Culpable inefficiency can be claimed if due diligence was omitted.

From the foregoing, if Clint van Zandt and/or Harold Copus neglected to perform due diligence on the forged, 8-second-tape video in that, they failed to ascertain the accuracy of this 8-second tape prior to airing, they would succumb to culpable inefficiency, despite their mere presence as props.

What unfolds in this scenario is whether Clint van Zandt and/or Harold Copus bring legal claims against Dr. Phil McGraw for setting them up, or they ride it out and allow the American public, as well as their potential clients, to appraise them as unprofessional for lack of due diligence? This becomes a serious matter for two former FBI agents who are employing their credentials as FBI investigators for their future income. Dr. Phil McGraw may have tainted their credentials forever. However, Clint van Zandt and Harold Copus decipher their predicament, their reputations have been damaged by being props on Dr. Phil's stage during the airing of a forged, 8-second tape video. Obviously, if they partook in the forgery, the damage to their reputations becomes insignificant.

Ty Ritter, likewise, suffers some fallout; however, his function is more related to the adventure through the cathouses of Latin America. I doubt he could harm his reputation any more from what was aired. He may be the only one that escapes tainting.

Beth Twitty has no susceptibility to culpable inefficiency. At no time was she reportedly privy to any of the forgery. What Beth Twitty can complain about is that after the revelation of the forgery, the Aruban defense team can question all the evidence brought into the case as potentially forged, as well, as a result of lack of due diligence on the part of the prosecution. Now, accountability for each and every piece of evidence and contention will be required. Any breach in the procedure for chain of evidence will void the evidence. Essentially, the last six months of investigation may have been voided by the airing of the 8-second video.

Also, the terrible part for Clint van Zandt and Harold Copus is that culpable inefficient can work to discredit any claims against Jamie Skeeter and Dr. Phil McGraw. Jamie Skeeter and Dr. Phil McGraw could claim the former FBI agents did not perform due diligence in support of his show.

Last night, Greta of Fox News aired the unedited CD-ROM of the conversation with Deepak Kalpoe.

Deepak says: "No, she didn't." And, the other statement actually reads: "You'd be surprised how easy it would have been that night." So, the second statement has been manipulated, as well. Also, Arlene Ellis Schipper commented that the video shows Deepak Kalpoe shaking his head "no" when he says "No, she didn't." On the 8-second Beta video, Dr. Phil's technicians froze Deepak's head by a spit-frame technique in order to camouflage the head movement.

Comment: The 8-second Beta tape was complete forgery!

Greta and Arlene discussed a better quality from the hard drive. The Aruban authorities have been waiting two weeks for the hard drive from the FBI.

Greta interviewed Beth Twitty (in Seattle). Beth stands behind Jamie Skeeter. She says the tapes are accurate. She feels that the Aruban police should be checking their video/audio tapes of the interrogations instead a twenty second tape produced by the Americans.

Comment: I suspect Beth Twitty is involved, in some manner, in the manipulation of the 8-second Beta video.

John Q. Kelly has been hired as a liaison between Beth and Karin Janssen.

Comment: After the foregoing statements by Beth twitty, I suspect John Q. Kelly may have an additional defensive function to protect and/or claim against Dr. Phil and company.

Beth says Karen Janssen has been dishonest with her, because no video-audio of the interrogations have been handed over to the FBI.

Beth hits her groove with Joran raped, murdered and buried my daughter. Greta just cuts her off.

Greta holds her council: Hammer, Williams and Grimm.

Incredible as this is to read, Jim Hammer claimed that this airing of the CD-ROM essentially ends the case.

Ted Williams criticized the interviewer on the tapes for not allowing Deepak Kalpoe to respond to the questions. He claims that the interviewer had no skills whatsoever at interviewing. The tapes are an embarrassment. Jim Hammer agreed with Ted.

Grimm considered the tapes laughable. He agrees with Arlene Ellis-Schipper on the shaking head motion as a confirmed negative to the most important question. Greta and Grimm explored the fact that Dr. Phil McGraw could go to jail. Without question, had this occurred in a courtroom, Dr. Phil would be incarcerated.

Ted Williams claimed that Dr. Phil McGraw took serious advantage of Beth Twitty. He cautioned that Beth Twitty and the entire Holloway family has to be alert for parasites out there eager to take advantage of them. We all know this by now to be an understatement


Tonight, Rita Crosby of MSNBC News aired "Aruba 6 Months later."

Rita aired the two versions of Jamie Skeeter's tapes. Rita attempted to classify the versions as the Skeeter version and the Aruban version. Arlene Ellis-Schipper corrected her, and said that they are both Skeeter versions. Jamie Skeeter could not be present for tonight's airing, because according to Dr. Phil McGraw, Jamie Skeeter is taking a polygraph.

After the airing, Arlene Ellis-Schipper claimed that on the DVD Deepak Kalpoe is likewise shaking his head "NO" when answering the alleged "No, She didn't."

Clint van Zandt described the editing of the tape and claimed that Jamie Skeeter attempted to get him to take custody of the hard drive. Clint then claimed that he described the chain of evidence requirements for Jamie, and Jamie turned the hard drive into the Ventura Office of the FBI. Clint then said that the FBI did not move on the case, because they were not requested to do so.

Next, Arlene Ellis-Schipper contradicted Clint by stating that the Aruban authorities used diplomatic channels to request the hard drive from the FBI two weeks ago.

Then, Beth Twitty contended that the tapes were edited and that they are a correct form of what Dr. Phil aired. Beth seems to feel that the Aruban authorities have lost focus in the investigation.

Dave, after viewing the long version of the tapes, also claimed that the tapes are not in error.

Next on Rita, Julia Renfro took Rita and her audience on a tour of the steps allegedly taken by Natalee and Joran on the night in question.

Dave Holloway explained that a tourist from America put up the wooden cross that we've previously heard about. Cadaver dogs checked out the area thoroughly, but there was no evidence found in the area of the cross.

Rita opened her show up to questions to be answered by Clint van Zandt, Harold Copus, Jossy Mansur and Dave Holloway. We have seen these guys before, now haven't we?

Harold Copus responded to a question as to whether or not the Dutch were looking through all their sanctioned brothels for Natalee Holloway. Harold responded that he did not think so, because there was such a low percentage of possibility that she would be in a brothel.

Joe Mommama made an appearance and announced his new ad for travel to Aruba that says "where murderers and rapists go free." Joe then went on about a grassroots boycott being organized by Mohammed Ali's daughter.

Arlene Ellis-Schipper counterd Joe's boycott with: "boycott means blackmail."

Antonio Carlo, attorney for Joran van der Sloot, discounted the rumors of a well on the van der Sloot properly that was not checked by the Aruban police. He calls those rumors ludicrous. Concerning the statement by Police Chief Dompig that the three suspects are guilty, Antonio Carlo claims that a formal complaint has been filed against the Police Chief Dompig and that the results await the Aruban court's decision.

Next, Rita introduced a psychic, Allison Dubois. Dubois claims, via headcapping (looking at people) that Joran van der Sloot is guilty of the crime. She says Natalee is dead. She says Paulus van der Sloot knew where to bury the body for maximum decomposition. She favors the boycott. She also says that one of the boys will turn on the others.

Dave Holloway passes on the issue of the psychic, because of his family's religious affiliation.

Art Wood talked about the belt he found at the lighthouse. The Aruban police claimed the belt was too old to be Joran's.

Greta of Fox News aired additional portions of the Skeeter tapes, in which Deepak Kalpoe narrated his distrust with the American media; specifically, how they tell him and his family one thing and do something against their wishes. He even has Jamie Skeeter telling him on the tape that Jamie will provided him a copy of the tape once he gets it transcribed, because Jamie does everything in writing in order to be fair. WOW! Greta actually aired this portion of the tape!

Next, Greta reported that the Dr. Phil Show has called in and told them that their version of the Skeeter tapes are accurate.

Dave Holloway discussed the four theories that the Aruban authorities are researching: Joran as culprit, kidnapped by others, victim to Mountain Brook kids and runaway.

Greta's council: Hammer, Williams and Grimm.

Grimm stated that it is obvious that one of the two DVDs listened to by Dave Holloway and Arlene Ellis-Schipper has been tampered with. Grimm believes both Dave Holloway and Arlene Ellis-Schipper, so tampering has taken place on one of the tapes.

Hammer contended that the FBI's enhanced version will bring more of the conversation to light and reveal the correct conversation.

Williams claimed the investigation has dwindled down to a sad conversation about tapes. He laments that that is why good-intentioned civilians should allow the professionals to do the investigation.

I'll see some of you readers in comments, later.

More tomorow.

Posted for HarryTho

Posted by Richard at November 30, 2005 9:24 PM


Certainly, we would be hard-pressed to claim that Clint van Zandt, Harold Copus, Ty Ritter or Beth Twitty actively participated in the forgery of the tapes.

Comment: I suspect Beth Twitty is involved, in some manner, in the manipulation of the 8-second Beta video.

-------------------

Isn't this a bit of a contradiction, or am I misunderstanding you?

Posted by: DT at November 30, 2005 10:17 PM

I'll wait for the public, unedited, release. To many agendas...

Posted by: iwabwu at November 30, 2005 10:29 PM

DT:

It is called expansion and contraction of language. I do not believe that any of the above actually participated (direct involvement) in the manipulating the tapes. Second, I suspect Beth Twitty may have been involved (peripheral) in some manner. The foregoing could not have been difficult for you to grasp.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at November 30, 2005 10:44 PM


Dear Harry
We are definitely not on the same page here. Hell his head could have been shakin from drugs. Have you never said yes shaking your head no because of your own disbelief in doing the act. You caould say conscious but I don't think the boys are aware of one.

Posted by: Allan Author Profile Page at November 30, 2005 11:01 PM

Dear Allan:

I was impressed with the clarity of the psychic, too! I would have been more impressed, if she had displayed her chicken bones.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at November 30, 2005 11:07 PM

Well, the family has to believe the Skeeter tape -- there's nothing left. They have worked themselves into a corner.

Since the DFI says it's manipulated, fat chance of it affecting the investigation.

Just more noise.

Uncle

Posted by: Uncle Ben at November 30, 2005 11:27 PM

Dear Uncle Ben:

The fake tapes do contain information that could lead to elimination of the three suspects as potential culprits. That is important, because then we have to look into the other possibilities that the Aruban police are investigating.

How may posters knew that Natalee Holloway spoke fluent Spanish? How many posters knew that Natalee Holloway was active in an outdoors' club? Interestingly, I asked these questions, early on, and no one on many blogs would respond, even those from Mountain Brook. Why? Natalee speaks Spanish, the language of all Latin America, except Brazil. And, she hikes!

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at November 30, 2005 11:51 PM

I was impressed with the clarity of the psychic, too! I would have been more impressed, if she had displayed her chicken bones.

Posted by: harry at November 30, 2005 11:07 PM

You can always count on Harry to cut through the BS and tell it like it is.
Thanks, Harry.

Posted by: Max at December 1, 2005 12:00 AM

Thank you Harry for telling us about the language skills of Natalee. I was not aware of her ability with Spanish or the fact that she is well versed and practiced in the good old outdoors. This girl very well may have went off with a dashing young spaniard to get away from Hitlers sisters daughter. I know I would leave with just about anyone to get away from a control freak like her.

Posted by: flightoffancy at December 1, 2005 12:02 AM

Harry,

That being the case, then it is important that the family and MB students sit down with the Polis and establish some details on NH, before leaving on the trip and including the time in Aruba.

This will give them something to match-up with what Joran indicated NH said to him.

They need to build that profile. JMO

Uncle

Posted by: Uncle Ben at December 1, 2005 12:14 AM

Dear Uncle Ben:

The fake tapes do contain information that could lead to elimination of the three suspects as potential culprits. That is important, because then we have to look into the other possibilities that the Aruban police are investigating.

How may posters knew that Natalee Holloway spoke fluent Spanish? How many posters knew that Natalee Holloway was active in an outdoors' club? Interestingly, I asked these questions, early on, and no one on many blogs would respond, even those from Mountain Brook. Why? Natalee speaks Spanish, the language of all Latin America, except Brazil. And, she hikes!

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 30, 2005 11:51 PM

I can't remember which MB poster it was that said this, but someone clearly mentioned that Natalee had taken advanced courses in Spanish during high school.

I'm curious though, where you heard that she was in an outdoor's club? And also what on it is on the tapes that makes you think the boys are innocent?

Posted by: DT at December 1, 2005 12:35 AM

SNIP: Certainly, we must consider that two career FBI agents would have apprised their participation on the Dr. Phil Show for this precise purpose. After all, they are both career FBI investigators.

Skeeter claims someone was with him when he questioned Deepak. I was thinking he said it was Copus. Does anyone remember it differently?

Posted by: Max at December 1, 2005 12:37 AM

Many things about Natalee that the Mountain Brook people have kept secret, including her Mom and step dad and of course her father. The American public that are stupid enough to keep on sending in donations to this crew the Twitty/Holloways certainly deserve to be relieved of their money. This case and the pubicity it has generated has been the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen displayed on what is considered the American News Media. In my opinion it is disgusting and the whole family stinks to high heaven.

Posted by: therose at December 1, 2005 12:37 AM

Dear Uncle Ben:

Let me reiterate what I said in order to be perfectly clear: None of the Mountain Brook students spoke up, when asked on another site, if Natalee Holloway knew Spanish. This is a serious descrepancy.

Uncle Ben, I just discovered, this evening, that Natalee was conversant, if not fluent, in Spanish! And, I have been following this case from early June 2005.

There is certainly a cover-up going on in Mountain Brook, Alabama. This is another one of the tidbits omitted by the Twitty-Holloway camp, as well. Don't you think it might have been helpful with Venezuela an hour boat ride from Aruba for Beth Twitty to share this choice piece of information during any one of her plethora of media appearances.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 1, 2005 12:45 AM

Let me reiterate what I said in order to be perfectly clear: None of the Mountain Brook students spoke up, when asked on another site, if Natalee Holloway knew Spanish. This is a serious descrepancy.

---------------------

I think we have seen a total of two, maybe three MB students who have discussed this case on the internet. And I definitely remember someone saying she spoke spanish, on the SM board a few months ago.

Posted by: DT at December 1, 2005 12:52 AM

DT:

I will clear the information and see if we can post it.

Another tidbit is that Natalee Holloway interfaced with foreign students.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 1, 2005 12:55 AM

Monsieur Harry,
First, thank you for the up dates.
IMO Beth is VERY involved in the forgery of the tapes. She saw them, agreed to airing the tapes with all the inconsistencies incriminating the 3 youngsters.
I found it very sad for Joran and the Kalpoe brothers, as the Lady from the media in Aruba said: most of the people see them as "the suspects". What their future will be after this?.
About Mr. Holloway , he hears what he wants to, he needs to have somebody to blame. He mentioned he saw the tapes in Aruba, sure he knew the tapes were not accurate, and he allowed to keep on airing them???
Why are they are still blaming ALE if FBI has been the one handing everything to ALE and Dutch Investigation Team. Now the evidence is just returning to the departure point.
Now let see how the FBI will handle the situation
Now Greta is missing Attorneys in her panel to agree with her in this situation, is funny.
À bientôt,
Antoinette
@DT I think you misundestand everything, maybe Richard writes to high for an average education person.

Posted by: antoinette at December 1, 2005 1:12 AM

Tonight on Greta, Dave claimed the tape that was sent to him today, matched what he heard on the Dr Phool Show. Does anyone know who sent him that tape?

Posted by: Max at December 1, 2005 1:16 AM

@DT I think you misundestand everything, maybe Richard writes to high for an average education person.

Posted by: antoinette at December 1, 2005 01:12 AM

Atoinette:

Please, anyone with even a basic understanding of Enlgish can see that what Harry posted was contradictory. Saying someone participated in the forgery and saying they are involved in the manipulation is, for all intents and purposes, the same thing. If anything, this was an ambiguity on Harry's part.

Posted by: DT at December 1, 2005 1:24 AM

Mademoiselle Antoinnette:

One of the issues that arose, tonight, when Greta was interviewing Arlene Ellis-Schipper and Dave Holloway was that, clearly, we have two sets of DVDs (or CD-ROMs) circulating from Jamie Skeeter. Bernie Grimm pointed this out in Greta's council session. By that I mean, the DVD sent to Aruba by the FBI (that received it from Jamie Skeeter) and ultimately went to the Dutch Forensic Institute (DFI) was different in content than the DVD provided by Jamie Skeeter to Dave Holloway. What we have surfacing is that there exists a possibility that the 8-second Beta video, aired to American audiences, was manipulated before Dr. Phil received it from Jamie Skeeter. Clint van Zandt, likewise, hinted at this very possibility during the Rita Crosby Show.

Regrettably, however it turns out the tape got manipulated, via agency-client relationship, Dr. Phil McGraw will end up holding the bag. If what Dave Holloway narrates is true and if what Arlene Ellis-Schipper contends is true, then we have two distinct versions of the Skeeter tape circulating. One has to be a forgery!

The comment earlier of Jamie Skeeter missing the Rita Crosby Show, because he was taking a polygraph, makes little sense. Is there any polygraph results less reliable than a professional polygraphist submiting to a polygraph? He obviously knows the tricks to beat the machine. Polygraphs are accurate, but they only work effectively on first or second time users.

Also, to Max, yes, I do recall something about Harold Copus being associated with Jamie Skeeter for the Deepak Kalpoe conversation. I am uncertain, though, if Harold was in the room with Deepak and Jamie.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 1, 2005 2:01 AM

Check out what Roger says about this over on Scrux. He gives a good appraisal.

http://scrux.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?p=595

Incidently, Harry, you have quoted Roger here before (sent by another poster, and innocently posted without attribution) and Roger said on his site, that he was happy to be quoted by Harry Tho, that he has a lot of respect for you, and that you never need to give him credit for anything. So, my guess is Roger would be happy for you to quote any part of his posting if you wanted to.

Posted by: fundaloo Author Profile Page at December 1, 2005 3:34 AM

In my humble opinion, this case is no longer a police investigation. In fact, I don't think it has been from day 1. This whole missing persons case has been a MEDIA case. It's the nost incredulously ridiculous thing I have ever seen in my whole life. Tell me I'm wrong, if you can, that when the FBI takes on a missing persons case, they provide details of the case to the family, who in turn show up on a daily basis in front of media cameras and sit on talk shows as well and inform the American public what went on that day in the investigation. Do you think really think the FBI provides their daily findings and facts to a loudmouthed family that runs to the media at least once a day at the onset of a missing persons investigation? For those of you who wish to contest this statement, I'll have to simply tell you that you are WRONG. In a case such as this, the FBI uses proper timing and diligent thinking whenever they make a public announcement to the press. The FBI and other experienced police forces to not like leaking anything to the press unless it is beneficial to their case. It is common practice for investigators to publicly announce that a certain person is NOT a suspect, when in fact he or she actually IS. They have their reasons. My point is this: If the FBI had handled this case from day 1, do you think they would have informed the Twitty/Holloway clan about their daily routines, where they were searching, who they were interviewing etc if they knew that the family would be on tye tabloids live from Aruba every night relaying this information and spouting off about their conspiracy theories? The answer is NO.

This brings me to my next point. In my estimation, I think the Aruban police force and prosecution were much, much too friendly and polite with Natalee Holloway's family in the first stages of this investigation. If not for tourism, any other country's investigative team, and even defence laywers, would have had a judge slap gag orders on this family to have them stop interfering with this case.

And here we are 6 months later, with Beth Twitty STILL commenting on every aspect of this case. Does Beth Twitty belong in this investigation? NO.
Beth Twitty has distorted this case through the media for 6 months. And she continues to do so. She has even publicly stated, many times, that Joran Vander yeah whatever murdered her daughter. Raped her first, along with these two brother etc etc bla bla bla. We all know. In other words, she keeps fortifying the fact that her daughter is dead. Now there's a clinical term called replacement when certain people lose a loved one. Some people take on, depending on their makeup, personality and upbringing, this replacement, to escape the reality of what is actually happening to their own personal life. I learned about this oh so well because of something that happenned to me in the past. It's so obvious to see that Beth Twitty is replacing her reality with her daughter's loss with the following: Flying all over the states in jets. Staying in nice hotels. Hobknobbing with the tabloid rat pack. Getting attention. Wanting pity. Looking for love. All of this, away from HOME .. which is REALITY to her. She's doing all this as well with donated money she's received in turn for her pleas for pity.

I'll go no further with this except to say that Beth Twitty is not getting her room service every day and meeting new people and appearing on talk shows and feeling more important than anyone else so she can find her daughter. She's told us all over and over that her daughter is dead. She's aware her body will never be found. She's doing this to run away from reality and get what she needs from this new life of hers that she can't get from home.

I'll simply leave you with these questions. Do you really think Beth Twitty should continue being part of this "investigation"? Is she serving any positive purpose right now?

Posted by: Jim Hanson at December 1, 2005 3:39 AM

good point

Posted by: jackson80 at December 1, 2005 6:58 AM

I've long wondered why Twitty has never been challenged on anything she's said or done. No hard questions but a carte blanche given unconditionally and liberally for anything and everything Twitty wishes to say or do.

Twitty is an example of the inebriation that comes with media fed and supported arrogance and need for control.

Will the REAL media please stand up and be counted. Are there no ethical journalists out there? Having said that, I suppose one could submit that the ethical journalists simply chose to ignore this story from the outset, having recognized the tabloid hyperbole that was the genesis of the entire debacle.

Has so little ever been made into so much by one woman and all courtesy of a few cable news "journalists" hungry to bolster their ratings?

Posted by: Heli at December 1, 2005 8:03 AM

Harry,

One one of the shows, I can't recall because they all run together now....that Clint Van Sandt stated he also spoke with Deepak Kalope, and stated that he was a very nice shy young man. So was he down there in Aruba with Jamie Skeeters? Was he part of the scheme to get Deepak to talk to Jamie on tape?

Posted by: Donna at December 1, 2005 8:59 AM

Hi Harry,
"How may posters knew that Natalee Holloway spoke fluent Spanish? How many posters knew that Natalee Holloway was active in an outdoors' club?"
This information becomes significant because it was rumored that the young woman went missing for several weeks in costa rica on a family vacation when she was about thirteen. Many posters discounted this saying "how could she possibly do this with the language barrier and all?" If she is indeed fluent in Spanish might we then possibly assume that there is a family cultural heritage and that,maybe she spoke Spanish before she spoke English? Many HS students take advanced courses. Few, if any, become so proficient as to be characterized as "fluent". Membership in the "outdoors club" would simply speak to the fact that she may not then be assumed to be the "southern belle, delicate flower, shrinking violet type of female". Rather this may indicate that she is the "self asssured, proactive, rugged sort of female". The other comment many posters have made is that the young woman was involved in a club at her school where the members communicated with foreign students. Some sumised that the young woman or her friends may have spoken on the internet to the suspects prior to going to Aruba. Of course in the absence of an examination of her personal computer and cell phone records we can only sumise. Even then, since the family has access to so many people who seem to have a facility with manipulating computers, how do we know that these same individuals didn't manipulate her computer? Perhaps even without the family's consent or knowledge.
As regards the issue of taping the suspect, isn't this against Aruban law and the law in some of our United States? I have found myself wondering how many "versions" of this tape are "floating aroung"? I have also found myself wondering, at the insistance of some posters, if, in fact the "hard drive" which apparently can also be manipulated and changed out, contains a version where the suspect is seen from the front and we hear him say incriminating things? Could a different version of all this have been given to the FBI? and For what purpose? It has always bothered me that this tape existed while the suspect remained in jail. I still do not understand why the tape wasn't immediately given to the Aruban authorities in order to insure further incarceration of the suspectS. It is difficult to realize that the family held onto to the tape for quite sometime, preferring instead to air the tape on a television program. I have heard the argument that the tape was owned by Dr. Phil, however, common decency would dictate that the program should have been sacrificed in favor of locating the young woman, don't you think? I keep looking for a motive for this behavior. Thus far I haven't come up with one.
Harry, everything you have said makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, I do not think, anyone will ever be held accountable for this debacle.
Lately I have been wondering if we are a part of a new kind of reality show. Only, instead of being the voyeurs, the audience becomes unwitting participants! Everything has been so bizarre and circuitous involving this case. Lying on both sides of the fence has been rampant. The appropriate questions are never asked at the appropriate time and the only one, if she is alive, who will perhaps be hurt by all this is the young woman who will remain missing until finally it isn't about her anymore and everyone just stops looking. How sad this would be indeed, particularly if she is alive and somehow being held against her will.
Great job, as always, Harry.

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at December 1, 2005 9:30 AM

Hi Harry,

Every day of the week has been a shock to our world down here in Aruba. But the most shocking was the beautiful Advertisement for Aruba on Barbara Walters with the Dutch Marines, all of the searches, the thousands of Arubans combing the island and the beautiful backdrop All the while Natalee's mother's biggest hope was that her daughter had been Kidnapped, Raped, Druged and held against her will. I would wish this on my worst enemy much less my daughter?? And to top it off, closing statement, "Natalee was just like anybody else." Strange, I thought she was special. Well, Natalee, your mom might not think so, but we do! God bless you baby!

Posted by: Dazed at December 1, 2005 10:22 AM

CORRECTION

I would N'T wish this on my worst enemy much less my daughter??

Skeeters has been messing with my posts! He has an allergy to N'T

Posted by: Dazed at December 1, 2005 10:24 AM

Dan Abrams played a Dr. Phil tape and a Skeeter DVD tape - just the 8 seconds. Skeeter claims he will send the hard drive tape to Abrams for comparison on Thursday 12/01/05 show. On that show Abrams porports to have a tape "manipulation" expert to judge the tape with Skeeter and Van Zandt in tow. I likewise heard Van Zandt make the claim that he was with Skeeter and DePak during the taping.

Culpability for the media extrabaganza should not be laid solely on the media door step.

The ususal suspects are:
1) Despite the laws against it, US citizens rely on police and prosecutionto name, prosecute, and execute the guilty party. Beth Twitty named the guilty party as Joran when Joran was "Rude to her". That was all that was needed for citizen conviction.
2) Retired police and FBI are complicit in the identify the guilty program. They are also totally free from prosecution as their out is "evidence to date suggests". Police and FBI also have a lifetime of experience in naming the guilty and hiding the evidence that would exonerate the innocent. Since Miranda the police legal teams have found innumerable ways to get around the "protections" of the law.
3)Bloggers both pro and con have kept the prosecution going for six months now.

Any prosecution of Dr. Phil or Skeeters or Beth Twitty is a fantasy.

1)DePak (the abused party) is not a US citizen, has no legal rights in the US, and the US will not be circumspect in allowing DePak his day in a US court against two media stars.
2) Dr. Phils owner - Oprah - has the funds to buy any result she wants.
3) The Netherlands and Aruba are not going to prosecute a US citizen. Any bets on how fast Bob Riley will act on reciprocity with Netherlands.

No one is mentioning Mike Huckabee, Arkansas governor, joining the boycott. He is an outside repplacement for Bush with the support of Tyson Foods and WalMart. He is very pro leniency on illegal immigrants. Could it be hes looking for funds to support his bid for president. He can not rn again for Governor.

Posted by: paul at December 1, 2005 11:13 AM

Help! (does anyone know if this is true?)

I was just told something VERY interesting. That Natalee wouldn't of needed a passport to get into Venezuela. All she would need is a picture I.D. and her birth certificate!! How simple would it be, if Natalee had a copy of her birth certificate on her? We already know she had money (which NO one really knows how much money this gal took with her to Aruba, or even had on her that night) and her driver's license.

We don't have any idea, if his young lady was planning a get away for over a year, maybe all of her senior year. What about that note she put in her year book? "IF I were to disappear tomorrow, would anyone remember me?"....(not a direct quote)Was she giving everyone a clue that is what she wanted?

Also, the FBI should go in and retrieve any and all computers in the Twitty household, to check the hard-drives, to see if Natalee ever conversed with persons in either Aruba or Venezuela, BEFORE her trip there.

Just some thoughts!

Posted by: Donna at December 1, 2005 12:43 PM

Dear fundaloo:

What happens at our site is that often I peruse the other blogs for interesting and novel leads and ideas in the case. Although I admit not quoting Roger per se from his site, because I have not specifically accessed his site. What I have done in the past is to quote others on other sites that have quoted Roger. Having said that, I believe if you check over our past editorials, you will find were we have quoted Roger, as he appeared on other sites.

Reviewing the link that you provided in your post, I recognize many of the posters on Roger's site. I have quoted many of those posters from other sites.

From juxtaposing Roger's site with ours, you can see many similarities in our thought processes and conclusions. Where Roger digs to the roots, so-to-speak, to assign ultimate responsibility, I expose the legal implications that regardless of ultimate responsibility, the key figures in the tape-forgery are liable via culpable inefficiency, lack of due diligence and organizational responsibility.

I have permanently linked to Roger's site, and in the future I will quote from his base site.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at December 1, 2005 2:02 PM

Donna,
everytime this sceanrio, the victim leaving of her own accord, possibly planned, comes up anywhere, the "wrecking crew" appears and says "absolutely not" then they say "no way, she was on her way to a fine pre medical program (although we have elrned that this poor young woman apparently did not make her first choice school as stated on a thread by a fellow "classmate" on RWV) and, one of her friends, I believe the girl driving the car when the video was made, said something to the effect, when interviewed "well she wanted to do something in the medical field". I remember thinking that this question, when asked to this kid, came out of left field and may not be what the kid knew to be true. So now, the kid was in a funny position, does she "debunk" what is being said by the "victim's" mother or does she sort of going along thinking to herseslf "well, saying the medical field is less of an untruth." What I have always found funny is the fact that that was a happy birthday video to the mom. Gee, didn't the "victim" say something to the effect that "the mom is looking like an old woman"? Wouldn't that get any middle aged woman upset? Particularly when said in a car on a video taken by a friend? I know people will say it was a joke but many a serious thing is said in jest and why say it if you know it is a sort of sideways jab? Always wondered about that.
How can the FBI look at computers now? and be certain they are, in fact even the same computer that was there when she was there?
This is on of those cases where "everyone is a suspect and noone is a suspect"! It is bizarre.

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at December 1, 2005 2:15 PM

Also, the FBI should go in and retrieve any and all computers in the Twitty household, to check the hard-drives, to see if Natalee ever conversed with persons in either Aruba or Venezuela, BEFORE her trip there.

Just some thoughts!

Posted by: Donna at December 1, 2005 12:43 PM

Donna:
several weeks ago i brought up this question at riehl world veiw........did the fbi look at natalee's computer & was there any contact with people in aruba prior to the trip

the response was interesting in that several people said that beth would have made the call as to whether anything was on the computer that would have a bearing on the case..............

Posted by: chip at December 1, 2005 2:59 PM

Donna:
several weeks ago i brought up this question at riehl world veiw........did the fbi look at natalee's computer & was there any contact with people in aruba prior to the trip

the response was interesting in that several people said that beth would have made the call as to whether anything was on the computer that would have a bearing on the case..............

Posted by: chip at December 1, 2005 02:59 PM

Well of course, because Beth has been the lead investigator since Day 1. Even handing the suspects over to the police on a silver platter, plus giving them evidence after evidence that was ignored, or "lost"...she claims.

This is why she will never get the answers to her daughters disappearance. She and Jugs and the posse, started their "own family investigation" and whatever THEY didn't want out about Natalee, is "irrelevant".


I still feel that Natalee ran away. And she is determined to stay gone.

Posted by: Donna at December 1, 2005 3:48 PM

Little Bo Peep, to answer one of your questions, Natalee said in the video made while riding in the backseat of the car that "she" did NOT look like a middle aged woman! I personally know the friend who was in the car with Natalee, the one who shot the video, and I am going to find out if Natalee was referring to her mother (Beth) or the friend's mother! I do know for sure that a compliment was being paid by what Natalee said, not a negative comment! It also has been said many times that Natalee planned to go to medical school after college, hoping to become a pediatrician.

Posted by: jewels flem at December 1, 2005 4:48 PM

" It also has been said many times that Natalee planned to go to medical school after college, hoping to become a pediatrician."

Posted by: jewels flem at December 1, 2005 04:48 PM

Hey jewels,
In the absence of a "transcript" of that birthday video tape, I'm just going on memory and I remember thinking that I felt bad for the victim's mother with that comment but that the missing young woman probably didn't think she was saying anything bad.
As regard the comment about being a pediatrician. It was clear in that interview that the young woman asking the question was caught off guard. I have noticed on the internet people feel if something is repeated many times that that make the statement a "fact". Again, in the absence of solid proof, I'm going to go with the "body language" of the fellow traveler on this one, she was shocked and this was her "friend". If the missing young woman wanted to be a pediatrician, wouldn't everyone in her class have known? Especially since this is truly a noble calling.
It is very good of you to offer to clarify this because it might bring some insight into the entire situation. You may find out things we have not, hertofore, been privy to and it may help us understnd everyone involved better. Thanks.

Posted by: Little Bo Peep at December 1, 2005 4:57 PM

Donna,

You have been told apparently incorrect information. http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1059.html states " A valid passport and a visa or tourist card are required. ... Some U.S. citizens have been turned back to the United States for having less than 6 months validity. Passports should also be in good condition, as some U.S. citizens have been delayed or detained overnight for having otherwise valid passports in poor condition".

However, 1) a passport is NOT required for US citizens to enter most Caribbean countries, and 2) passengers arriving in small boats are not always checked by immigration authorities, in Venezuela and elsewhere.

Posted by: George at December 1, 2005 6:11 PM



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