Latest Entry: American Pravda and New York's Sixth Crime Family     Latest Comments: Talk Back Here

« American Media Ignore Ongoing 'French Riots' Story | Main | Iraqi husband and wife team kill Jordanians »

November 11, 2005

HarryTho 11/11 Afternoon Natalee Holloway Update And Commentary (Updated)

Topics: Natalee Holloway

Reader Bryan sent in a link and information on the Birmingham News report that U.S. Rep. Spencer Bachus said Thursday the Aruban government has pledged to send its lead investigator to the U.S., to discuss the Natalee Holloway's disappearance.

But according to Aruban Deputy Police Chief Gerald Dompig, the idea's been discussed, but, and for some reason there's always a but in this case - on the part of everyone, the idea doesn't yet have official government approval.

In what might be an opening to resolving the boycott issue, Bachus said he has asked the Arubans to explain the investigation "to get a more accurate reading of how the Aruban government has cooperated."

In another boycott-related matter, have you wondered why Philadelphia jumped on the boycott bandwagon so quickly?

Via reader Bryan, we see that our previous post's allegation about a money connection in the Philadelphia Boycott, is now confirmed. Jack Kelly, Philadelphia City Councilman, supported the city wide ban on travel to Aruba.

Here's a short exceprt from Phillymag detailing Joe Mammama's donations to politicians lists:

$ 10,000 for Mike Fisher's gubernatorial campaign, more than $20,000 for Sam Katz's most recent mayoral push, and $7,000 to City Councilman Jack Kelly. It's the same Jack Kelly!

The connection between Joe Mammana's money and the calls for boycott imply a secondary boycott in underway. Joe could be liable to Aruba and any American company that gets damaged by his call for boycott.

With his gangster demeanor and expressions on the cable news networks, he will find little sanctuary from the court's condemnation.

Another reader (permission to identify, not yet provided), wrote to say that there are 2 things that have been repeated on the internet that he/she would like to know if there is evidence that they are more than rumors, and is there any verification of the truth (or lack thereof) concerning either of these?

1. That Marcia Twitty confiscated all the cameras, photos, and cell phones from the kids (& chaperones?) as soon as they arrived home.

2. That an attorney was hired for one or both of the Twitty boys upon their arrival back home.

In response to these questions, I offer that it is my understanding that both of the above comments are true.

As I understand, not long after arrival, Marcia Twitty did collect all the cameras and photos taken while the group was on their trip to Aruba. At the time, it was my understanding that the Twittys were assisting in the FBI portion of the investigation in Mountain Brook, AL.

Secondly, it has been mentioned that Thomas Twitty, not Hunter Twitty, was provided a lawyer. As I researched the case, it appeared that the lawyer was someone close to the family, if not a blood relative. Accordingly, I would not read to much into this.

If you are asking if I know for certain that these events happened, I cannot say with 100% certainty. Only the FBI would have that information. However, from the early posts of the those from Mountain Brook, AL, these two issues were quite popular and caused considerable concern. I welcome input from the readership on this, and as always, have no problem being corrected by concrete information, if I am in error.

On yet a different matter, another reader sent us a clarification of what happened between Beth and Janssen.

Beth Twitty Declined Meeting With Chief Prosecutor:

Chief Prosecutor Karen Janssen and Deputy Chief Gerald Dompig did schedule a meeting with Beth Twitty to take place during her most recent trip to Aruba. However, Beth changed her flight, missed the meeting and did not even call to cancel or re-schedule.

During her stay this month in Aruba, Beth Twitty met with the police at the Noord Police Station. Karen Janssen went to Noord Police Station to find Beth Twitty and schedule a meeting. However her invitation was declined by Beth Twitty due to flight plans.

Gerald Dompig received the same message, however was able to find and speak with Beth Twitty before she left Aruba."

And interestingly, it looks like Diario (and subsequently Aruba Truth - "Dutch company has given thousands of dollars to Governor Bob Riley")has reported on our information posted over the last couple of days - without bothering to mention us as the source or that we had it first. Heck, our feelings are hurt!!!

But if they need us to dig up the truth for them, we're willing to keep on doing it, so long as it gets done.


Emailed to us this afternoon from reader "Researcher" comes some interesting information. We are simply reposting the information at this point, and will offer commentary on it later.

Early on there were only a few blogs. The answer to (some of the above) questions lies in the statements from the mountain brook posters in the very beginning.

Ian or Zeus may have access to the original information. They also posted on the aruba travel discussion board and the Birmingham News, Mountain Brook Forum. Those early posts would tell you a lot and may be where it was posted about certain people "lawyering up."

The MB posters felt comfortable saying that the cameras and cell phones were "comfiscated" by the mother of the twins. All the MB posters at the time said that she was on that trip. (I) never understood why the mom was not furious with her. She was family and she was there. Aside from the young travelers, and the 7 chaperones and their significant others, which the family, in the early days felt compelled to say they "did not hold responsible", there apparently were some other parents and some previous graduates.(simply having a vacation)

"Holloway came to Aruba for a five-day excursion with 124 seniors and 40 chaperones from Mountain Brook High School near Birmingham, Ala."

The rumor (that an attorney had been retained)about one of the twins came out almost immediately. During the first two weeks,people were honest. They just said what was the truth, they had nothing to hide.
I always felt that the prayer meeting was also a time for the community to discuss the situation at large.

Also felt that the pot was calling the kettle black when they pointed out the conversation that PVDS has with his son and the K's.

Meanwhile on Greta the stepfather tells about a meeting in his office the first time they came back to the US with some of the MB kids and he and the mother. 'Her son, for school. But also, it gave us an opportunity to talk to some of the kids that are Natalee's best friends that were on the trip with her down there. And you know, they came to my office one day, and we talked a little bit.

But having Beth back here -- Beth is like their best friend. I mean, they're all, like, she's like one of the girls, you know? So this afternoon, they came over and we sat down and we talked. And we talked about what happened that night, what happened at Carlos and Charlie's, what happened at the Holiday Inn, you know, just the whole story. Because we've been talking back and forth on the phone or asking questions when, you know, the FBI wanted to ask us a question, whatever. And this just gave her more fuel right there, that this happened and this happened, and she got the real picture of, you know, what all happened that night."

What is the difference between that meeting and the meeting around the pool? If you remember they came back really quickly that first time. Boom they left the island to take a quick break and were back in like two days. This was without warning, why suddenly run back unless it was to get everything straight.

There are too many inconsistencies now. Arbeej, who innocently posted her feelings on scared monkeys in the beginning is now backtracking on RWV, trying to rewrite history and seeming to be pretty upset about it. It was what it was. Probably what was initially said was the plain truth. Now, we are trying to edit the truth, saying things have changed. How do you change history?
If you go to fox and look at all the early Greta shows there is a lot there to substantiate the talk Here are just some significant quotes from those early days which may prove to be highly important:

On May 30, the night Holloway was last seen, she attended a beach concert featuring Boyz II Men and Lauryn Hill at Surfside beach in southern Aruba, Tourism Minister Edison Briesen said. About 8,000 people attended the concert, which was part of the third annual Soul Beach Music Festival. (on a lot of the boards, after initially saying she went to the concert, suddenly they were denying this. Why?. Fox news was not the only new organization reporting this.
Holloway then ate and danced at Carlos 'N Charlie's bar and restaurant. She did not show up for her return flight, and police found her passport in her hotel room with her packed bags.
Authorities were overheard on a police frequency Sunday evening issuing a bulletin to stop a rented white Toyota in connection with the disappearance of the 5-foot-4-inch blonde. Dompig declined to confirm it.

Posters with a photograph of Holloway have been put up throughout island, with a caption reading: "Kidnapped since 1:30 a.m. May 30."

"She's not on the island," said Jany Winterdal, a 51-year-old taxi driver. "In Aruba, we don't know what doing bad things to people is. For me, she's alive."

The search has not been extended to Venezuela, whose coastline is only 25 miles from Aruba at the nearest point, or the neighboring Dutch island of Curacao, van der Straaten said.

No one thinks that the arrest of the guards was significant, maybe it was, but the mother single handedly strong armed the police into releasing them.

Neighbors described the two detained men as security guards who worked at a hotel closed for renovation near where the teen was staying at the Holiday Inn. Deputy police chief Gerold Dompig confirmed that the suspects were security guards

The Aruba police and other international authorities "are doing everything in their power to find Natalee," Oduber said, adding that he's been in touch with U.S. officials like Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Alabama Gov. Bob Riley and Alabama Sen. Jeff Sessions.

"There is no reason to believe he's not telling the truth," Lejuez told FOX News Thursday morning, referring to his client, Jones. He added that Jones has repeated the same story to
several people -- that he was at a beach festival the night Holloway disappeared, then went home with his wife, where he slept until 7 a.m. the next day.

Could it be significant that this guy attended the festival?

The Aruba police and other international authorities "are doing everything in their power to find Natalee," Oduber said, adding that he's been in touch with U.S. officials like Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Alabama Gov. Bob Riley and Alabama Sen. Jeff Sessions.

Isn't it interesting that all of these public servants were involved this early.

The entire article is very significant. It is not easy to find on the internet. It puts one of the security guards at the beach concert with the missing young woman.

Also, she apparently stayed in room 7114 in the hotel, according to posters this room can be easily reached by avoiding the main entrance, she could easily have returned to the hotel and the room by entering through the sliding glass doors.

It is interesting that they originally said the story about the security guard dressed in black. Always wondered if she was indeed left on the beach but the suspect observed this person outside of the hotel and then felt it was safe to say this to the police because he assumed that this person would have assisted the young woman into the hotel. The suspect may not have realized that the room was reachable by going under the radar and entering through the unlocked sliding glass doors. Some posters have said that, according to the local radio station, a maid in the hotel heard a woman scream. Other reports indicate that some observed a young woman being forced into a car.

Still there is another story of two government employees doing a search who came upon a car. In the car they observed a young woman in the back seat. They called the radio station and said that they approached the car to have a look and that a man near the car chased them with a machete. (remember that one of the things found when the pond was drained was a machete) The persons called the station, it was then pursued by someone and all the aruban posters who reported this claim that suddenly the persons back tracked and said this did not happen. Probably, in real time it did, but then the persons
who reported the story thought better somehow of getting involved. " In Aruba, the effort to find the youngster grew Monday. "About 700 volunteers joined police, soldiers and FBI agents combing scrubland and beaches on the Dutch Caribbean island's southeastern tip. Aruba's government let 4,000 civil servants off work early to hunt for the teen."

"They said they dropped her off at her hotel about 2 a.m. and last saw her being approached by a man in a security guard uniform before they drove off, a lawyer for the brother's has said".

"According to the men's police statement, they did not get out of the car, defense lawyer David Kock said. Instead, Holloway and the Dutch teen, an honors student at the Aruba International School whom she met at the casino in her hotel, "were in the back seat kissing."
"They also told police they dropped Holloway at her Holiday Inn at about 2 a.m. and last saw her being approached by a man in a security guard uniform before they drove off, Kock said."

"The brothers told police the young woman was drunk and refused to get out of the car, said Noraina Pietersz, a lawyer"

"Kock said his client, Satish Kalpoe, 18, and his brother, Deepak, 21, told police they last saw Holloway being approached by a man in a security guard uniform before they drove off.

A police officer told the AP earlier this week that the two detained former security guards were known to police for trolling area hotels to pick up women, and at least one had a previous brush with the law. Lawyers for the two men have said they deny any connection to Holloway.

Holiday Inn employees say security cameras did not record Holloway's return. In addition, a Holiday Inn guard who worked the overnight shift the day the young woman disappeared said he did not see the high school graduate, said Pietersz, who said she also reviewed the guard's testimony to police.

These are the clues being given out by the attorneys. They must be factual. This must be closer to the truth than you would assume.
If the fellow travelers are so incensed then maybe the scenario with the security guard really is the truth. Maybe he did approach her, maybe she did fall and hurt her head.

We don't know whether they dropped off the other suspect with the young woman or not. If he remained in the car maybe she found her way back to the hotel via the sliding glass door. If she didn't make it into the hotel maybe the security guards are in fact somehow implicated.

If they were both dropped off maybe he left her at the beach and saw the "security guard" walking over to her so he assumed she would be okay and went on his merry way.

If she did make it back to the hotel. Then, what do her fellow travelers know?

If she didn't, did the security guard approach her and then help force her into a car, per the posters from aruba who heard the radio report of the screams. This was heard by the maid in the hotel apparently. The cab driver basically tells us that everyone knows everything on this island. So why doesn't anyone know anything about this. Probably all the posters who are saying "listen to the arubans" are trying to direct our attention toward all of these early items that came from the radio station.

The Financial Times (FT.com) writes of Alabama Gov. Riley's boycott, "On the same day this week that the UN General Assembly urged the US to lift its embargo of Cuba, Bob Riley, governor of Alabama, was talking about adding another Caribbean island to the blacklist." After mentioning that Riley wrote to his 49 fellow governors proposing a US boycott of Aruba, the article gets right to the meat.
Why has Riley chosen to embroil himself in the case now? The answer probably has more to do with Alabama politics than the merits of the Aruban police. Riley faces a tough battle for re-election next year, with both Democrats and Republicans lining up to challenge him.

Cable news channels have long known that missing white women are good for ratings. By seeking justice for Natalee, perhaps Riley is calculating they could also help generate votes.

I believe that it does indeed appear that Governor Riley needs the publicity; however, he can obtain it. After all, evidence and facts often take a back-seat in politics around election time, don't they?

Greta at Fox News redacted her advertisement of a boycott solution on Monday, and interviewed Jossy Mansur.

Jossy reported that the Aruban Police Union has gone against move to send investigators to the USA. The Police Union demands the Mountain Brook teens come to Aruba to be questioned.

Greta classified the move as the Arubans getting stubborn after the call for a boycott, and that is just about what many of us expected!

Update: A reader emails in suggesting that we recheck this.

You might want to recheck this, as I recall Greta misunderstood and thought Jossy was talking about the Union disagreeing with them sending people to interrogate the teens, instead, this was in reference to the supposed trip by the police to Alabama to communicate with the governor regarding the boycott. Jossy corrected her on this during the interview.
Our thanks to the reader for the input, and we will try to check this out. We are open, as always, to input and verifiable corrections.

Although much more was planned for tonight, today was Veteran's day, and since we are former military guys, we have been involved in veteran-related activities which have gone a little later than we had planned. So we'll put the rest up tomorow, since there's much more very interesting information to get out.
Thanks for reading us tonight. Please catch us tomorow.

Aloha!

Posted for HarryTho

Posted by Richard at November 11, 2005 1:15 PM

http://p073.ezboard.com/ftheunusualsuspectsfrm7.showMessageRange?topicID=293.topic&start=24&stop=24 : "The students that I have heard from have been angry and one of them stated that two people supposedly saw Natalee at her hotel the morning after she disappeared".

Posted by: George at November 11, 2005 3:21 PM

Dear George:

We are still developing our update for today. Being Veterans Day, some of us (former servicemen) have engagements.

Earlier, we posted a statement from Frances Ellen Byrd, a close friend that appears in most group pictures with Natalee, in which it seems clear that she saw Natalee in the Holiday Inn long after Joran van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers allegedly kidnapped, gang-raped and murdered her.

I pray the renewed investigation of the Mountain Brook teens shed some light on this issue.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at November 11, 2005 4:35 PM

I believe that anyone can call for a boycott of anything, as long as people listen, I have personally long boycotted Aruba, as it is a "number one" "SHIT-HOLE" of S.A., along with Columbia and Venezuala. Just my opionion,but I wouldn't let my kids go there.

Posted by: Dennis Brock at November 11, 2005 8:04 PM

Monsieur Harry,
I found this post is not a recent one but maybe we can understand the actitud in the MBK. Think It is dated June 09. Sorry!!


Recent Mountain Brook graduates are tight-lipped about Aruba trip
By ANDREW NELSON
BIRMINGHAM POST-HERALD
Recent graduates who accompanied Natalee Holloway on last month’s trip to Aruba were asked by her family not to talk to reporters, said one who attended the prayer service at Mountain Brook Community Church on Thursday.
Asked why they weren’t talking, Marcia Twitty of Mountain Brook, Holloway’s stepaunt and a family spokeswoman, said the family didn’t want to interfere in the investigation.
“We have got to let the FBI and these officials do their job,” she said. But she said authorities had not asked the family to be silent regarding the investigation.
Most of those who attended the prayer service at the church, which is on the former campus of Southeastern Bible College, said they couldn’t say anything, including — in almost every case — their names. Nor would they provide the identities of the chaperones who accompanied them on the trip when asked.
One dark-haired teenager eating an apple as she walked away from the prayer service put an index finger over her lips in a “shush” motion when a reporter asked a group of women about what happened on the Caribbean island.
À bientôt,
Antoinette

Posted by: antoinette at November 12, 2005 12:07 AM

Monsieur Harry,
Maybe this article can explain the actitud of the MBK. Not recent is sometime in June,


Recent Mountain Brook graduates are tight-lipped about Aruba trip
By ANDREW NELSON
BIRMINGHAM POST-HERALD
Recent graduates who accompanied Natalee Holloway on last month’s trip to Aruba were asked by her family not to talk to reporters, said one who attended the prayer service at Mountain Brook Community Church on Thursday.
Asked why they weren’t talking, Marcia Twitty of Mountain Brook, Holloway’s stepaunt and a family spokeswoman, said the family didn’t want to interfere in the investigation.
“We have got to let the FBI and these officials do their job,” she said. But she said authorities had not asked the family to be silent regarding the investigation.
Most of those who attended the prayer service at the church, which is on the former campus of Southeastern Bible College, said they couldn’t say anything, including — in almost every case — their names. Nor would they provide the identities of the chaperones who accompanied them on the trip when asked.
One dark-haired teenager eating an apple as she walked away from the prayer service put an index finger over her lips in a “shush” motion when a reporter asked a group of women about what happened on the Caribbean island.

à bientôt,
Antoinette

Posted by: antoinette at November 12, 2005 12:09 AM

Greta at Fox News redacted her advertisement of a boycott solution on Monday, and interviewed Jossy Mansur.

Jossy reported that the Aruban Police Union has gone against move to send investigators to the USA. The Police Union demands the Mountain Brook teens come to Aruba to be questioned.


--------------------

You might want to recheck this, as I recall Greta misunderstood and thought Jossy was talking about the Union disagreeing with them sending people to interrogate the teens, instead, this was in reference to the supposed trip by the police to Alabama to communicate with the governor regarding the boycott. Jossy corrected her on this during the interview.

Posted by: DT at November 12, 2005 2:13 AM

Dear Harry,

Again and again I get to point out that allegations of "murder" exist mainly among "Kool-Aid drinkers". Beth Twitty never made such allegations. Her allegations are limited to boys "knowing more" about what's happened to Natalee after "gang-rape".

IMO, Beth restrains herself from murder allegations because she is aware of irrefutable evidence that she KNOWS that Natalee left suspects alive.

Posted by: George at November 12, 2005 4:09 AM

Another great digest, thanks HaryTho! I am looking foreward to your nest posting.

Posted by: Pat at November 12, 2005 5:35 AM

Dear Harry,

As a development to my earlier comment, Meri Ulrich has today posted http://www.useless-knowledge.com/1234/nov/article197.html beginning with "Mr. Gould, it was never a secret that a student informed me that two other students supposedly saw Natalee Holloway the morning after her disappearance at the Holiday Inn". Gerald Dompig is aware of this, and hopefully FBI will interrogate Mrs. Ulrich and then her informant so that to finally establish that Natalee Holloway has indeed returned to the hotel after leaving Joran at the beach.

BTW, the message board persistenly referred by Meri Ulrich with a wrong name is really http://p073.ezboard.com/ftheunusualsuspectsfrm7

Posted by: George at November 12, 2005 6:21 PM

Harry,

Me again; just read http://www.scrux.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?t=32 with last post asking " Somebody send this to Harry Tho.. its right down his alley. Does he have an email or how do you send stuff to him". I am not a member there, thus just bringing this to your attention.

Posted by: George at November 12, 2005 8:28 PM

Dear George:

What the link implies is that Beth Twitty, with accomplices, scripted Natalee's room at the Holiday Inn for the walk-thrus by Fox News and other news entities. If that avenue of research proves meritable, then it begs the question why Beth Twitty felt that she needed to script her daughter's room. Clearly, we can see a connection forming with our hoodwink scenario in which Natalee Holloway escaped Aruba via the McWane jet that brought Beth Twitty to Oranjstad.

Thank you for bringing this link to our attention.

With Aloha,

Harry

Posted by: harry Author Profile Page at November 12, 2005 9:28 PM

Dear Harry,

Natalee may have escaped Aruba via the McWane jet but I feel more likely that she escaped from her insufferable mother who therefore truly does not know WHERE her daughter is; this scenario still constitutes gross deception on part of Beth Twitty.

Posted by: George at November 12, 2005 9:38 PM

I can easily see why Natalee would want to run away from her mother. Possibly even enough to not let herself take into account how much she would be hurting Dave. But what possible scenario would there be with her leaving on the jet that brought Beth to Aruba? I have no trouble believing that Beth would be guilty of subterfuge, but I can't think of what would be gained by it. Or is it all that something would be hidden by doing it?

Posted by: np at November 14, 2005 11:59 AM

I'm a bit behind in commenting; just saw this column...
In response to a reader's question, Harry wrote, "As I understand, not long after arrival, Marcia Twitty did collect all the cameras and photos taken while the group was on their trip to Aruba. At the time, it was my understanding that the Twittys were assisting in the FBI portion of the investigation in Mountain Brook, AL... If you are asking if I know for certain that these events happened, I cannot say with 100% certainty. Only the FBI would have that information. However, from the early posts of the those from Mountain Brook, AL, these two issues were quite popular and caused considerable concern. I welcome input from the readership on this, and as always, have no problem being corrected by concrete information, if I am in error."
I just wanted to share that this allegation is not true. I do not know if she asked for any items from Natalee's closest friends, but she did not attempt any confiscation or even ask the group at large for these items. It was alleged that she was waiting when the group arrived home. There were two groups, and I did not see her when I picked up my child. No one asked for these items from her at any point.
A featured comment from "Researcher" alleges the following: "The MB posters felt comfortable saying that the cameras and cell phones were "comfiscated" by the mother of the twins. All the MB posters at the time said that she was on that trip. (I) never understood why the mom was not furious with her. She was family and she was there." I do not know of the posts to which he refers, but again, Twitty did not confiscate items from the group. Nor was she a chaperone on that trip. Researcher then adds a puzzling bit about Yours Truly: "There are too many inconsistencies now. Arbeej, who innocently posted her feelings on scared monkeys in the beginning is now backtracking on RWV, trying to rewrite history and seeming to be pretty upset about it. It was what it was. Probably what was initially said was the plain truth. Now, we are trying to edit the truth, saying things have changed. How do you change history?" Researcher does not list specifics and I do not know to what s/he refers. I am frankly baffled by the entire, vague post. I hope that Researcher will email me for clarification of whatever s/he feels needs addressing. Arbeej @ yahoo . com

Posted by: Arbeej Author Profile Page at December 16, 2005 4:52 PM



Articles Related to Natalee Holloway: