November 6, 2005
HarryTho 11/06 Natalee Holloway Update And CommentaryTopics: Natalee Holloway
For tonight's post we'll run through a variety of items, but I believe that most of the news on NH is behind us. I believe that slowly we are eliminating the possible scenarios on Natalee's disappearance:
First let's look at a TBHS post that discusses a posibility that NAt Hol overdosed in the Holiday Inn.
Originally Posted by aloha.Next, from RstJ, also at TBHS.
The adults and kids on the trip should have immediately volunteered; should have told Aruba LE everything they know. If they are not hiding something, why be so uncooperative? Why does Beth not want them questioned? What is she afraid of?
What people have suspected all along--that Natalee returned to the hotel. That someone in the MB gang is lying about having seen her. That maybe more than one someone is lying in this case.
If Natalee Holloway is found dead at the HI, and an autopsy reveals an illegal drug in her system, even if that's not what killed her, there would be an investigation into where she got the drugs. That might lead to some people whose parents are several steps up the food chain from Jug Twitty. People like Ruffner Paige, whose daughter was on the trip. People like Jar Twitty, whose two sons were on that trip. That's a scandal that needs to be buried, no? And maybe that's why, of all people, a DEA agent was first involved in this case. It would explain the medvac jet. It would explain why the "call me" posters went up--Beth thought Natalee was wandering around on the island drugged out of her head.
Remember Jug "if it's drugs, we can fix that." It would explain why the security guards were landed on--they probably made chump change dealing to tourists, which would make them natural suspects plus K2J helpfully fingered them because K2J probably knew they were penny ante dealers. That would also explain why they remained viable suspects when the supposed security tape should have ruled them out even before they were arrested. There is no tape. At that time, two or three days in, no one could be sure that Natalee had *not* returned to the hotel. That would explain the weird rumor Riehl picked up on that Natalee's phone was being used to call her friends. His source said it was the chaperone. I think it was Natalee herself and that there's a whole pattern of calls from long after Joran has an alibi.Next we have some background that Mountain Brook experienced a drinking problem.
That's why Beth was so damn certain Natalee must have been at VDS house--because *Joran* was there, provably, at a specific time. So Natalee must have been with him. And that's why the Twitty Posse was searching high (bad pun) and low, even in the seedy parts of town. They *knew* she was still alive! Or at least, had been alive as of say 4am May 30. That's why the boys had to have "set their computer clocks back." Because the timestamp on their conversations alibi'd them solidly at their houses at a time when Natalee Holloway was still making cellphone calls from the area north of the Mariott.
That's why the posse headed right for Joran's house. They thought she was hiding out there. That's why Beth's dumb version has to have Joran taking Natalee down to the beach at 4am. Or Paulus giving Joran a ride from the Mcdonald's at that time. And that's why Marcia landed on the MB kids on Jun 9, and why Jug had to go in and interview K2J. Because once it became clear that Natalee had been dropped not in front of the hotel, but on a beach a short distance down the coast, and not at 4am but closer to 2:30am, they realized what she must have been calling about, from which direction she would have returned to the hotel, and the area she would pass by.
The pool area.
The place where people were partying "until 5am."
They saw her. And Marcia told them to keep their damn mouths shut unless they wanted to get in major trouble themselves. I'm sure their parents agreed. Everyone did, except Reynolds, who just had to speak out about Joran, to try to push a little harder to put the blame on him....
63% of Mountain Brook students drink alcohol. Marajuana abuse ranks second. No user percentage was supplied. Abuse of prescription drugs ranked third, likewise, no percentage usage was listed.Again from TBHS, we find discusions of two theories: One theory exposes the Mountain Brook teens as doing drugs and partying heavily at the Holiday Inn. This theory holds that Natalee made it back to the Holiday Inn after Joran dropped her off at the Marriott Beach. Once back, Natalee joined her friends in partying and OD-ed in one of the rooms. Various theories emerge to explain how the teens dispose dof the body: laundry cart to dumpster to landfll or hoodwiked back to the USA:
The newsletter cleary shows that underage drinking was a problem at Mountain Brook High School, especially at parties. Abuse of alcohol and/or drugs was estimated at 68% at these parties.
Remember that story from way, way back. About a chaperone chasing off some drug dealer? I think that might be true. Except I think there's more to it than that, in particular the explanation for what the drug dealer was doing hanging out w/them in the first place and why this chaperone didn't simply call the beach patrol.
Those kids were doing drugs. That picture of Byrd and her boyfriend looks like they're both wasted as hell on something besides alcohol.
Intersetingly those kids around the pool look wasted yet they are not holding drinks.
This story needs a full explanation and without one best I can figure is the chaperone was chasing the drug dealer off to eliminate competetion or the students got ripped off. Something is not right here. Drug dealers at a beach front resort cater to the likes of these underage drinkers from Mountain Brook, I seriously doubt they felt threatened in any way shape or form by a guy in a flowered shirt and Panama hat.
Mountain Brook has a bonafide drug problem and these same students did nothing to report the homies that were dealing. - MlazyV
Or the first thing should you be aware that Natalee had taken drugs, her classmates had supplied them, and that you did not want this to become generally known. In any case, even if the rumor is true, it's more insanity since the Ambassador from the Netherlands is hardly going to have this kind of power, or exercise it if they did.
Makes you wonder how much crap Beth's been spreading among US officials tho, doesn't it? Freaking Condi Rice. Well, of course she'd buy into it, wouldn't she? Being perfectly in tune with the art of Snowing the Public.
Would a hotel employee have seen her? Were they even interviewed? What about non-MB guests?
Do we know who was partying until 5:00 a.m.? Maybe she was taken by someone partying a the hotel not associated with MB? Maybe that's where the I don't even know these people comes from?
What would they have done with the body? Why hasn't it been found? It would be difficult, IMHO, to take a body back to Alabama and hide it.
Joran may well have just dumped Natalee on the beach. She found her way back to the HI. The kids around the pool--and perhaps some adults--decided to party in one of the rooms. Somebody gave Natalee drugs, she O.D.ed, and died. They couldn't report it to anyone, because they'd provided the drugs, which makes them culpable. And they were wasted themselves, which means they weren't thinking straight. If there was an adult involved, he or she could arrange to dispose of the body: wrap it in a sheet and trundle it out of the hotel in a laundry cart.
Maybe that's why the kids had relatively nice things to say about Joran initally--they didn't know, at that point, that he could be scapegoated. - lucinda
But the most interesting part of the interview is Delong. She only seems to show up at the beginning of cases, she's very much to the point, and she's right a little too often. I've long suspected that she might not be quite as retired as she appears, that she might be a conduit for the FBI to get their theories out in the open w/o having it trace back to them. Kind of like lighting a fire and seeing which way your prime suspects run.
What I found particulary interesting was this:
I haven't heard whether or not her bed was slept in, but you just interviewed her best friend that said, she was always the one that was up first.
Which means...what? Not sure how Natalee's normal waking time has any impact on whether or not her bed was slept in. The significance of this, in my mind, is that neither Delong nor her sources had any information from McVay at this point, Natalee's obstensible roommate. Delong doesn't seem to think Natalee returned to the hotel, yet she's uncharacterically fuzzy on the point.
Now think about it--her best friend is talking about how Natalee was always the first one up...how does she know this? Why is she even mentioning this? How is when Natalee normally woke up relevant to whether or not she returned to the hotel that night and why is Byrd, who is supposedly *not* her roommate, talking about this as if it had any meaning? It's a complete non-sequiter, unless Natalee was Byrd's roommate and Byrd was trying to explain why *she* didn't notice anything was wrong when Natalee was not in *Byrd's* room the following morning. In other words, not until people started searching for Natalee the next morning. And they went right to the logical place she'd be--her room. Byrd's room. Because at that point they knew Natalee had not shown up back at the hotel, and her friends were worried about what had happened to her. So they went to see if she'd simply gone to bed. And they went to where they expected to find her.
This is what I think the real room arrangements were: Whatley/McVay, Byrd/Holloway. Two adjoining rooms with similar floorplans, both with two double beds. I think the room that should have been searched was Byrd's, and I bet it wasn't.RstJ
We don't actually KNOW what kind of a rep Natalee had back home. A couple of the kids let slip that she drank beer at parties back in MB. Now that's no big deal, of course, but it's a crack in the pristine image. There is a persistent rumor that she was "reprimanded" at MBHS for performing oral sex on "an older boy" in the bathroom. That certainly ill-accords with the kinds of platitudes Beth and the Robokids have been spouting.
We know nothing about this young woman. When Nancy Grace asked Beth if Natalee liked breakfast or dinner, all Beth could say was that Natalee "was an outstanding young lady. " Give me a break. That's what your school principal says.
And remember the equally persistent rumor--which sprang up immediately--that Natalee had run away five years ago on a family vacation to Costa Rica. Five years ago was when Beth and Jug married. - lucinda
When I posed this idea of an overdose in a Holiday Inn room early on on the Riehl World View blog, Proudredneck was quick to attack me and ridicule the idea. Maybe it is time to find out who Proudredneck really is.
The second discussion involves a kidnapping reported by a employee of the Marriott Hotel in which she claims two dark men took a 5'4", screaming, blonde woman into a white Toyota jeep:
As a side note - If we make a possible connection with the white Toyota jeep and the fishing trawler, we could have something. The Japanese or Taiwanese fishermen would take Natalee to the mother ship. Mother ships stay at sea forever it seems. They are floating canneries. Interestingly, the mother ships remain in international waters or the high seas and are thus out of everyone's jurisdiction.
Juju's Big95 theory is interesting. I've never heard this before but she claims that a maid at the MH heard a woman scream that morning, and 2 men reportedly abducted a woman from the street in front of the Marriot. It was on the Big95 radio station. - letsbefairFOXNews.com - U.S. & World - Two Arrested in Disappearance
"Authorities were overheard on a police frequency Sunday evening issuing a bulletin to stop a rented white Toyota in connection with the disappearance of the 5-foot-4-inch blonde. Dompig declined to confirm it."
I do remember the 2 men abduction story early on, and that they weren't being taken seriously. Also there was a report of a police radio conversation that said they were looking for a "rented white Toyota" in connection with a missing 5'4" blonde on Sunday night. That would have been before Natalee was reported missing by the MB teens. I wonder if that report is true and was connected to the 2 men abduction story? - Letsbefair
Fascinating, as Spock would say. For one thing, Beth doesn't even seem to know how Natalee wore her hair, which sounds like a lie since she would have had pictures of her by then, or at the very least descriptions from her friends. It could be curly, it could be straight? WTF? Sounds like Beth is trying to say what Natalee might look like now, June 2, in other words, Beth thinks she's still alive. But does she really think "kidnappers" are going to be letting her fix her hair and parading her around in public?
Let's say that Joran does leave Nat on the beach where the fishing huts are. She is half sleeping and wakes up and wanders around getting her bearings so she can walk back to her hotel. You could reach your hotel easily that way if you stayed near the water.And from "Key West."
There are two men "fishing" near the huts and they see her. She does not see them.
I thought initially it seemed odd to me that men would be on the beach fishing at 2:30 in the morning. They admitted they were there, but said they did not see her or Joran.
What if theythey are responsible for her disappearance?
It would be in their best interests to say NO ONE was there since they were there and they killed her. Chopped her up in little pieces and headed out to deep water a couple of hours later and she is food for the fishes.
But good luck proving it now. I think if the FBI suspected this they probably could turn the fishermen against each other and someone would crack. But down there its just not gonna happen.
I imagine others have considered this theory too. - Ranger
I have my famous "Big 95 Theory" Named after the Radio Station I heard it on ..As I recall ,2 or 3 men called in and 1 lady ,a maid from the Marriott the heard a woman Scream .. they saw 2 men grab a blond lady off the Street. in front of the Mariott.. and called de Cops. I guess The car was a white jeep ,a rental by the tags. - Letsbefair
2 Dark MEN Grabed a blond Woman off the Street in front of the MH.. about 3AM ish.. that night.a Maid from the MH heard a woman scream,also.
They all called ALE and left their names and phone Numbers ,but were never contacted. They Called in to "big 95" to talk about it.! - Key West
Comment: The notion of the fishermen as the real culprits may have merit. After all, they would have access to a boat that could have slipped out of the Marriott Beach area unnoticed. The fishermen would have the implements with which to dismember Natalee and feed her body parts to the sharks. Small pieces of meat immersed in a pool of blood in the ocean would make tantalizing treats for hungry sharks. Aruban fishermen would know where the pelagic sharks are located. Dumping Natalee's body parts in the ocean would not be a hit-or-miss proposition. The fisherman would have certitude in their favor.
Next we have an article that exposes that the Aruban police have concerns about Beth Twitty's early conclusion that her daughter was kidnapped - "Justice interrogated Twitty as witness."
ARUBA - The Public Prosecutor (OM) indicated that the investigation on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway is still going. Witnesses are being heard, the investigation is being analyzed, and they are investigating the tape that was broadcasted in the show of Dr. Phil.Beth Twitty's rapid entry and early accusations in Aruba, after leaning that her daughter missed her flight back to Alabama, are now being questioned. Clearly, the Aruban authorities exhibited concerns about Beth Twitty's early kidnapping conclusion.
During the interrogation, Twitty was asked why she showed up in Aruba so fast after the disappearance of her daughter and she had to explain a few accusations she made in public. Also other witnesses are being heard; new ones and also some that have already been heard. They have gone through the entire file once more and found some issues that need further investigation. As part of that, the US authorities were asked to assist with the interrogation of some Americans. The OM has sent the tapes that were broadcasted in Dr. Phil's show to the forensic institute in the Netherlands for further investigation. The results of this investigation are not yet in.
Looking at various scenarios, there's an article that provides yet another scenario of how Natalee could have disappeared. The Arubans have an overfishing problem, stemming from an invasion of Japanese and Taiwanese fishing vessels. You know, any one of their trawlers, in port for consumable supplies, could have acted as carrier for Natalee Holloway. Fishing fleets from Japan and Taiwan stay asea for long periods without women. It would have been easy to abduct Natalee and take her aboard a mother ship that cans the fish caught by the trawler crews. Was there a trawler in port on the night that Natalee Holloway disappeared?
Both Japan and Taiwan engage in the sex slave trade. Japan has a greater reputation than Taiwan for this practice; however, given my experience with Taiwanese fishing fleets, I would never count them out of any crime.
Here's some background to "landlord" Luis Mansur with a connect with the Twittys via the Castle Heights Military Academy in Lebanon, TN.
The seller is Terminal Investment Corp. with President Jose Travieso Jr. and directors Luis Mansur and Jose Montiel.
Terminal Investment purchased the property in April 1985 for $12.5 million, or $51.15 a square foot. The property is currently assessed at $4.1 million, or $16.89 a square foot, according to Miami-Dade County property records. The sales price is undisclosed.
Terminal Investment is owned by the Bahamas-based Mendal Investments and the Cayman Islands-based Marine Investors, according to a document Silvers filed with the city of Miami Beach.
Comment: The fact that money from overseas (two tax havens with secret ownership) purchased the property in Miami at a huge premium, hints at the source of the funds as being illegal. It is common practice to launder money via real estate purchases. First, those who approved the sale of this property undoubtedly did so with the anticipation of some manner of clandestine remuneration. Second, those individuals (entities) administering the property are under some obligation to approve a lucrative use of the property some time in the future. Third, the fact that Luis Mansur is one of the three directors in this development, likewise, hints of money laundering.
On Luis Mansur, Aruba Facts - Aruba News Desk - Newsletter March 1-31, 2001
The Royal Cabana Casino was first open in 1992 and was operated by Luis Mansur and Blackjack Casino. At the end of 1995 the casino was taken over by Aruba Leisure & Gaming partners Norbert Aleman and Nathan Katz, both familiar operators on the island.Bienvenidos a Regionnet
Luis Mansur is involved in the Central Industrial and Commercial entity in Argentina.Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - Jossy in hospital with chest pains!LovelyPigeon
The school that several Mansurs, including Jossy, went to that was also attended by Jug and Jar Twitty was Tennessee Military Institute (TMI). None of them attended during the same years.
I have not heard that a Mansur son and Jug's son went to the same school and wouldn't know what school that would be.
TMI was renamed Tennessee Military Academy (TMA) in 1975, but is not longer in operation at all, having closed in 1988.
Go to http://www.castleheights.com/ and look at Roll Call for names and years.
Jug Twitty '74
Farid Mansur '82
Serge Mansur '83
Luis Mansur '84
Eduardo Mansur '86
Castle Heights Military Academy in Lebanon,TN
Castle Heights Military Academy maintains an active alumni association that receives huge alumni donations.
Aruba - Matutino Diario - Diabierna - Staff y Personal
Director of the Diario, Jossy Mansur
Director in Absentia: Luis Mansur, Jossy Mansur, Eduardo Mansur, and Damilice Mansur.
Clearly, the Mansur family completely controls the Diario newspaper.
Again, moving on - Yep, it's William Morris:
From a post at TBHS. The guy in the picture is William Morris. He is the Mountain Brook student who allegedly received a phone message from Natalee Holloway. At the time, he told the authorities that he did not Natalee very well. The gal cooing up to him is Francis Ellen Byrd, Natalee's best friend. The gal that we quoted and posted about in last evenings post. The two look like they had been abusing alcohol or drugs.
Dan has revisited these alleged phone calls. Morris' call came while he was on the flight back to the USA from Aruba, hinting that whoever called was calling after Natalee allegedly disappeared. Byrd received a call as well, but little is known about that call. Byrd has been quiet to the public.
The poster here is pointing that Natalee's best friend, and her boyfriend, Morris, were toasted. They both received phone calls form Natalee. Morris claims that he barely knew Natalee and wondered why she would call him. Byrd just remains silent. Also, in another email that I sent, the poster assigns the DNA on the toothbrush in Natalee's room to Morris. Morris is wealthy!
Smile and say "Toast...ed!"Let's take a break here to point out something possibly important. Interestingly, Natalee's alleged friends from Mountain Brook have not returned to Aruba to look for her. They have the money, and they had the summer off. Yet, all the Mountain Brook kids have done is provide some coached TV appearances and remained silent. Some even, the Twitty twins, have lawyers, since they returned from Aruba.
If the call was to his cellphone, then that would explain the weird post on Riehlview to the effect there were two calls that night, one to this guy, and another to a "potential roommate of Natalee's" which is Riehl's way of saying that he didn't manage to find out who the girl was, although I'm sure it was Byrd. That would also make sense as to the "we" who were calling Beth from the airport. Byrd's boyfriend just happens to discover a message on his phone from Natalee. Whoa, dude, how did that get there? Wow, I was so wasted, I didn't even realize Natalee was calling last night. I just, you know, forgot...
Natalee calling her real roomate's boyfriend to say...what? Hey, I'm partying with these guys and I'll be back later? Hey, are you guys in the room tonight I wanna do this Dutch guy? Help, the Dutch guy is strangling me and I really need you guys to call the police but don't let my mom know until you're safely at the airport?
There is something terribly wrong in Mountain Brook, AL.
On the cable side of news, Fox News hosted John Walsh and Beth Twitty.,/strong>
John Walsh of America's Most Wanted claims the Dutch screwed up the investigation so much that Beth Twitty may never know what happened to her daughter. John employs his wisdom of Dutch law by suggesting a plea deal in order to undo the incomeptence of the Aruban authorities. John felt the FBI should have been involved from the beginning. John Walsh says the only way to resolution is to get people to do things by calling a boycott. Mr. Walsh classified all the claims against Beth Twitty and the trust fund as being mean spirited and wrong. He characterized Paulus van der Sloot as an arrogant jerk, and is apparently quite disgusted with Joran and the Kalpoe brothers.
Beth Twitty feels that John Walsh's take on the case is right on. She acknowledges the collusion and corruption. Fox News reported that the Aruban Attorney General told the Governor of Alabama that the Twitty-Holloway family needed to go to the Hague for resolution of their concerns.
Fox News discussed a wooden cross on Marriott Beach. Art Wood's name comes up with the cross and some guy named "Toon" (sp?) was the guy to speak to. Beth claims that 100 FBI agents could not resolve this case. Beth claims that there is no law enforcement on the island, and it is unsafe for tourists.
Let's chew on this overnight - more tomorow, but Aloha for tonight.
Posted for HarryTho
Note: Harrytho is the author of "Dark Waters" and other books, and writes under the pen name, Justice Hawk.
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Posted by Richard at November 6, 2005 10:48 PM
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