October 4, 2005
HarryTho Tuesday Night Natalee Holloway Update And Commentary (Updated)Topics: Natalee Holloway
Just in case you missed Monday night's commentary and update - there wasn't one, thanks to our Florida high speed Internet provider going dark for over 24 hours. So you'll find that some of tonight's "update" is more "recap" than update. But of course, we still have the commentary, which as always, is intended to invite discourse and ideas! Hammering out different views is the only way to remain "open" to the truth - once it finally smacks us in the face (if we're lucky enough to arrive at it).
Before we go back to recap, a current item is Scared Monkey's, " Strategic Communications Task Force; "the boycott will have negative consequences for our tourism and economy."
The Dairio newspaper is saying that an American boycott of Aruba will have negative consequences for their tourism. From all indications that the tourist experts have quoted, tourism has increased as a result of the Natalee Holloway coverage. I believe the Dairio's position is political and designed to spook the Aruban tourist industry, specifically the hotel & casino industry.
In my opinion, Aruba remains the safest Caribbean island in terms of crime and natural threats. Despite the season, Aruba sustains its natural beauty and availability. Crime, with the exception of a possible disastrous scenario for Natalee Holloway, is near inexistent on Aruba. The boycott will fall on deaf ears. Actually, a boycott may become detrimental for the other Caribbean vacation spots when tourists begin juxtaposing safety concerns advocated by the boycott's rhetoric.
We see that Josie Mansur is continuing his attack on the Aruban government over the upcoming boycott of Aruba by the Americans. The article reads more like sour grapes for losing the election.
Still looking back a bit, Scared Monkeys had Beth Twitty: "Forensics were never done at the primary residence of the Van der Sloot home"
The story is a fabrication or misunderstanding. Beth Twitty is harping on the fact that the Aruban authorities did not do forensics on the primary residence of the van der Sloots.
The primary residence of the van der Sloots is the father's house. There was no search warrant issued for that house. What the Aruban authorities searched and conducted forensics on was Jordan's house, the building adjacent to the father's house.
Beth misleads Julia by not distinguishing the two homes. Beth was aware of the difference. She was videotaped on the cable news networks on the van der Sloot's property and actually went inside the father's house with Greta.
The items carried away by the Aruban authorities came from Joran's house - the house in which Natalee allegedly spent some time. There were no testimonies implicating the father's house in Natalee's disappearance; hence, a search warrant was not appropriate.
Accordingly, Joran's primary residence is his house; whereas, the primary residence of the van der Sloots is the father's house.
Now, Beth is not lying in this interview. She just is allowing Julia to immerse into the confusion.
Again looking back to revisit previous issues, a reader emailed me saying:
The weakest part of anyone's story is to minimize the initial lie. With all due respect, to not see Joran's statement that he didn't know who Natalee was is a lie. Was there another girl he was creating a lie about?I responded by writing that first, van der Straaten exhibited good police work in arresting the two security guards. Yes, the police uncovered the security guards from the initial lie; however, Mickey John, one of the security guards, was, in fact, in the Holiday Inn the night Natalee disappeared from 9:30 PM to midnight. After midnight, he as no alibi until his mother noticed him in their house after 6:00 AM. When Mickey John was arrested, a search of his home revealed articles belonging to the Alabama teens, residing at the Holiday Inn. Mickey John possessed items indicating that he had been inside their hotel rooms.
Nevertheless, your conspiracy writings are excellent, though I would disagree with what we know. We know Joran lied to prevent anyone from going to the site he now claims to have left her. Investigation 101, last person to be seen with her and the location are crucial to begin an investigation. He pursposely distracted the police away from that spot that he now claims to be the "truth." Motive is not the issue here.
But for the police to not be able to figure out they were lying is reprehensible and certainly a red flag for a cover up. If he had told his second story first and the police could have gone to the exact spot he is now claiming he left Natalee do you think they would have found anything? Less than 24 hours after he dropped her? I don't think so, because it's a lie.
Just what other "evidence" did Van Straaten have on the 2 security guards other than the 3 suspects lies? He did use the work evidence. If you go to the Natalee Holloway part of the Riehl World View and read from the beginning it's absolutely fascinating.
Maybe you could get a hold of a known investigator (for credibility sake) and walk through this story with him/her. I'm pretty confident that they would not consider Joran's lies innocent. I'm also pretty confident they would be baffled at the way the 3 were handled initially.
Why was the FBI called in immediately under the fact that the surroundings to this case were out of the ordinary? This was early on? What does that mean?
Second, the FBI was called in, because Secretary of State Rice, a former resident of Birmingham, AL, requested their assistance. The exact reason for her request was never publicized. During the same period, May 2005, members of the Good Ship Lollipop (Chicago Mob associated with Michael Posner) were indicted by a federal grand jury for among other wonderful deeds 18 counts of murder. Also, according to Venezuelan President Chavez, the USA was planning an invasion of Venezuela. The one FBI agent on scene so quickly was on Aruba for vacation.
As far as a known investigator reviewing the case, he would have to be Dutch with experience in the Caribbean to be of any value. We cannot juxtapose crime cases here in the USA with similar cases overseas. The overseas cases, especially within a highly illicit trafficking route like Aruba finds herself, require intense information gathering efforts in order to piece together a probability scenario. Take this case, it completely ignores femicide scenarios, rampant in Latin America. What has, in fact, been done by the American investigative effort is to treat this case like a normal disappearance in Omaha, Nebraska.
In yet another dialogue with the same reader, one that should also be of interest to other readers, the above reader wrote in his email to me:
I agree with most of it other than that Van Straaten did good police work. They really should have exposed the lie which wasted valuable time. Seems odd they used that story. What would have happened if Joran said they dropped her at the airport? Or told the beach story right away.Continuing with the "email dialogue," I responded with:
You have to admit, not seperating the suspects immediately or checking the house and car was a fatal blunder.
Here's a post that articulates my point of view almost exactly with a few minor differences. The key is I think we all believe as you have state, it's hard not to see a cover up on many levels. I like you're falling on swords comment the best as I see this behavior analagous to the way large corporations operate and the inherent psychology that exists.
After reading Dan's blogpost a few times...here is my take:
Dan is correct about the MSM and their coverage of cases like these. I noticed this with the Kobe Bryant rape case, where they used every bogus claim that the gal he raped was a slut/druggie/psycho and most of those stories were either false or exaggerated. And, they refused to investigate Kobe' past rape history (extensive) and the judge fixing the case in favor of Bryant. (And, the media tries to hide the fact that Bryant signed a statement admitting he raped the girl.)
Lets go back to the Natalee Holloway case. Dan is correct about the media and their coverage....however, unlike the Kobe Bryant case....the media has the basic facts correct:
- Joran VDS and the Kalpoes are involved in the disappearance of NH
- No one has denied that the boys lied...and the fact 2 innocent black men were falsely arrested and the police waited 10 days to arrest the real perps
- The perps were released three days before their scheduled hearing...the Arubans taking advantage of the media focus on Katrina.
The glaring problem with the media is that they do not investigate. Sure Greta followed Beth around....but what Beth needed more was people to get down and dirty and do some hard investigation of the Aruban govt.
But, I believe Dan is incorrect in some areas... here is a sampling:
- Claims Joran never made statements...however not only does Dave (NH father) confirm statements exist...but the Aruban govt has never denied they exist (they deny its use in the case...but not whether they exist or not)
- Claims there are photos of NH doing jelly shots at a bar (w Joran/w-out Joran)...however I asked repeatedly for those photos and they never have been posted or linked (this is the same thing MSM does...making claims unsubstantaited or not researchable)
Also......I think the main problem w people here is that they don't like Beth Twitty.
Get over it. She is doing the right thing. Her approach is much better than what Dave is taking.
Arubans fear Beth because she will embarrass them by finding out the facts.....some American media don't like her because she is a "white Southern woman" (not politically correct in this day of "diversity"...the new racism).....talking head TV lawyers dont like her because she is revealing facts about the case.
Here is the lowdown on the case:
Joran and the Kalpoes drugged and raped Natalee on the VDS property. During the course of the crime, Natalee was mortally injured and died.
With the help of Paulus VDS and the ARUBAN GOVT....arrangements were made to dispose of Natalee by burying her. When Beth and Jug arrived in Aruba....Paulus and his govt cronies got a boat and dumped Natalee in international waters before she was buried.
Key fact here is that ARUBAN GOVT OFFICIALS ARE DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN NATALEE'S DISAPPEARANCE. This is beyond coverup....and its easy to tell w the Aruban authorities actions and comments
First of all, the innocence or guilt of all those arrested has not been determined. To date, the guiltiest person in this entire affair is Mickey John. It was public opinion, fueled by Beth Twitty, that freed Mickey John and not the rule of law.Another interesting post of Scared Monkeys, "Joran Van der Sloot; They went to his home and The Kalpoe brothers waited outside," could do with a little perspective.
Second, Dave Holloway confirms only that he read the same translated Dutch statements provided to Beth and Jug. Hardly an improvement on authenticity! The silence of the Dutch government over the alleged statements is designed pressure the culprits. Obviously, if someone else disposed of Natalee, then Joran's confession reprieves.
Third, by Beth exposing certain allegedly undisclosed aspects of the case, she is educating to the real culprits. That is why the Aruban authorities are upset with her.
Fourth, nothing in the "lowdown," as presented, has been ascertained.
I believe that we should take time to subject these interviews to the same scrutiny with which the media has applied onto Joran van der Sloot and company.
First, National Enquirer's David Wright avoids queries as to the correct identity of his "associate" Kristina Pedersen with respect to Joran van der Sloot. This should have been an easy question to answer. Apparently, David Wright and Kristina Pedersen had been in Arnhem for at least two weeks ... until they " ... ended up working together."
Was she a girlfriend to Joran or a reporter? No response! I believe the reader can fill in the blanks to the question: She lied to Joran about her true identity in much the same way, I suppose, Joran was so criticized by the media for pretending to be a visiting student from Holland to the Alabama teens. I can surmise that a woman lying or engaging in false pretenses means nothing to our media.
Second, this pretentious Christina Pedersen reported this alleged encounter with Joran to her, well, whatever, and he reported it as gospel in one of our nation's most prestigious bastions of integrity, the National Enquirer.
Third, had David Wright of the National Enquirer bothered to research the case of Natalee Holoway's disappearance, he would not have confused Joran's house with the father's house. But then again, I appreciate that David usually writes with his view unobstructed to his computer.
I pray the media follows up on this pretentious woman. I know how much the media abhors liars.
Update: Nancy Grace hosted Jug and Beth Twitty. Essentially, Jug and Beth retraced their early meetings with Joran van der Sloot and Deepak Kalpoe. It was old news for the most part. One interesting development was that Jug revealed that prior to talking with the Aruban police in front of his house, Joran asked Jug to step away. Jug admitted that he left the discussion and returned to the van where Beth was waiting. Without any member of the Twitty-Holloway camp present, Joran van der Sloot explained to the police the extent of his involvement with Natalee Holloway. Accordingly, neither Jug nor Beth overheard any conversation implicating Joran in any sexual misconduct.
Another point worth mentioning is Jug's reference to unsavory language uttered by police chief. Jug highlighted the unacceptable word "pupus" used by the police chief. Jug intimated that he knew what the word meant and felt it was disgusting to hear from someone that he is forced to rely upon for assistance. I will grant that I am not familiar with the slang of the languages spoke in Aruba; however, in contradistinction to Jug's beliefs, the word "pupus" is a common word in the islands of the Pacific and refers to "finger foods" or small snacks for munching. Since the police chief mentioned his need for frosted flakes for breakfast, it seems more than likely he was referring to food and not some delicate woman's body part, as Jug contends. Jug even admits his ignorance of all the languages spoken, except English, in Aruba.
Josie closed the interview by assuring Nancy that the investigation was ongoing. Josie believes the prosecutor is fine-tuning her case against the suspects. He revealed that the police were investigating some caves, and that they were diving.
This last entry is added to clear up a lot of what Beth and Jug have been uttering about all over the media. Nancy Grace worked hard to contain her composure, as Jug revealed that he was not present for Joran talk with the police. Interestingly, Beth, even after Jug admitted no one listened to the conversation between Joran and the police, was adamant about how the police omitted the sexual assault of her daughter from their report.
Final Evening Update - A reader emailed in and wanted to see a picture of HarryTho's computer that he uses to work-up his Natalee posts. Apparently because she/he noticed that we were always posting FOR HarryTho instead of BY HarrTho:
Yet another "final evening update":
Nancy Grace, once again, hosted Jug and Beth Twitty with guest appearances form Josie Mansur, David Wohl, Alan Repka, and Bethany Marshall.
Josie reported that the Aruban authorities are doing dive searches near the lighthouse. Joise explains that the divers will thoroughly search an underwater cave in that area. Nancy, politely, questions the veracity of Josie's report that the Aruban authorities are doing anything.
Beth Twitty contends that she was forced to sign a statement, written in Dutch, about her meeting with the van der Sloots concerning Natalee's disappearance. Beth says she signed one statement, then she was asked to sign a second statement that the Aruban authorities contended had a date alteration. Some 20 days later, Beth contends that she finally received a translation of the statement that she signed on that night and that it contained many alterations. Nancy quizzed her about the alterations. Basically, the translated statement omitted the names of many of the individuals that she met that night. This may be the product of police procedure in the Netherlands. Nothing Beth mentioned seemed, to me, to suggest foul play by the Aruban authorities.
Next came a translated statement received by Jug Twitty in which Joran van der Sloot allegedly goes into great detail describing Natalee's underwear and parts of her body. Jug, however, does state that the Chief of Police van der Straaten denied any knowledge of such a statement when Jug mentioned the statement to him a few hours later. Interestingly, the description of Natalee's underwear, aired on the telecast, was quite detailed. Given the particulars of this case, this underwear description clearly stands out as a masterpiece of observation. In retrospect, I have no recollection of any female garments that I may have encountered in the heat of passion, and certainly not any item of underwear.
Attorney David Wohl focuses on his disbelief of the investigative techniques of the Aruban Police. He feels that they are on cruise control.
Beth repeats her blood-in-the-car announcement. For some reason, she refuses to believe that it was determined to be cleaning fluid, months ago.
Attorney Alan Ripka supports Nancy on her curtilage contention over Paulus van der Sloot's house search. I have already articulated on that erroneous thinking.
Beth claims Paulus van der Sloot coached the suspects into getting their story together.
Bethany Marshall gets a few frames on the telecast to explain Joran's alleged psychopathic behavior.
Given the foregoing, I would have to question the veracity of the alleged statements provided to the Twittys, describing Natalee's underwear in detail. We should keep in mind that someone with an eye for female underwear could have observed them in detail while Natalee was allegedly entertaining herself at C&C ... or from underwear taken from Natalee's room at the Holiday Inn. Who provided those translated statements of these detailed descriptions to the Twittys? The original statements had to have been written in Dutch or one of the other popular Aruban languages. Someone, describing underwear in the detail aired on the Nancy Grace telecast, spent a good deal of time with that underwear and admiring underwear in general. In my opinion, the author of those translated statements, accredited to Joran van der Sloot, knew underwear!
That should really do it for tonight!
Posted for the venerable HarryTho
Posted by Richard at October 4, 2005 9:07 PM
WHAT ITEMS DOES MICKEY JOHN HAVE!!!!!???? I need this info !
go red sox
Posted by: Jillian in Boston at October 5, 2005 11:12 AM
"Dan is correct about the MSM and their coverage of cases like these. I noticed this with the Kobe Bryant rape case, where they used every bogus claim that the gal he raped was a slut/druggie/psycho and most of those stories were either false or exaggerated. And, they refused to investigate Kobe' past rape history (extensive) and the judge fixing the case in favor of Bryant. (And, the media tries to hide the fact that Bryant signed a statement admitting he raped the girl.)"
The description of Kobe's accuser was not that great an exaggeration; she quit the trial after getting pregnant by a smack addict while in drug rehab for cocaine and alcohol abuse. Furthermore, the court papers had documented that there were two mens' semen found on and inside her and neither belonged to Bryant. Both were from white men. There is no way she would have won a criminal trial with the evidence she had--fresh semen indicated sex with multiple partners which would tend to cause the injuries she was reported to have.
Kobe did admit to sex with her, and that in of itself does not constitute rape. Any other "charges" seemed to have civil suits written all over them which sort of kills the credibility as well. It should be noted that Katelyn Faber, the accuser, filed a civil suit right away. She did not get that much, and was forced by law to pay back the victims' compensation fund that gave her a nice chunk of change. You cannot get state money if you back out of a criminal trial.
Posted by: nomoretwits at October 5, 2005 1:56 PM
Oh yeah, not to sound pervy, but how did Jug know what her undies and private areas looked like??
Things that make ya go "hmmmmm".....
On a less pervy note, it sounds to me like Beth and Jug saw pictures of her at the bar and that means everyone knows what her underwear looks like. If she booty danced, she would reveal a lot more...;) No wonder the pictures were unofficially confiscated....
Has any reputable source ever translated these so-called confessions?
Posted by: nomoretwits at October 5, 2005 2:01 PM
All I have is general descriptions; i.e., cameras, etc. Greta at Fox News, I believe, filmed some of the items as the police were removing them. The Aruban police mentioned some of the items, as well, in the early reports on the case. Cameras were one of the items found in his room.
Posted by: harry at October 5, 2005 2:43 PM
I am a British reporter, flown out to Holland to work undercover for the National Enquirer on the Van Der Sloot story.
I do hope this clears things up.
Posted by: Kristina Pedersen at November 22, 2005 11:50 AM
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