August 15, 2005
'Beer Can Party' Comment On FoxNews Angers Previous Natalee Holloway Searcher (Includes Evening HarryTho Updates And Commentary As Arm Washes Up On Venezuelan Shore) (New update)Topics: Natalee Holloway
[Evening HarryTho Updates And Commentary Below In Extended Post]
In a diversion from the real issue, that being Natalee Holloway's disappearance, a point also made by Scared Monkeys on the beer party issue, Hyscience contributor HarryTho emailed in to say that Red, at Scared Monkeys, who actually went to Aruba and assisted Texas EquuSearch for a few days, didn't appreciate the "ice chest of beer" comment by Jim Knox on FoxNews.
From a previous Hyscience post on the topic, readers will recall that Jim Knox, the financier of the new search team, stated that his team has true cadaver dogs: Astro and Rhino, that only alert on human remains. Jim claimed that prior search team only searched, or worked, for two hours a day, brought coolers of ice cold beer to the search sites and had equipment that they didn't know how to use. In essence, according to Jim Know, the prior search teams were best categorized as beer party teams. Jim explained the recent change in attitude of the Aruban police with respect to cooperation, as being due to his team being professional with international success. The new search team has over 2,000 finds in some 17 countries and states.
However, HarryTho reported that in the same FoxNews interview Patrick Brosnan disbelieved Jim Knox' appraisal of the prior search teams in saying that it is common for one search team to downgrade a prior team, a fact that should ameliorate any SM anger at FoxNews, an anger or disgust that should instead be focused on Jim Knox, if at all.
Nevertheless, Patrick Brosnan seemed hopeful of the new found cooperation with police, but he questioned, why team effort now? Also, Pat felt that the prior frictions between the inter-agencies and search teams may not be soothed over so easily. If they could turnover information from prior teams and police, then he feels there would be more progress. Harry's input was that categorizing a prior team as a beer party probably did little for the public relations effort designed to effectuate a smooth turnover of information that had previously been collected.
Us Hyscience folks(and SM) believe that Natalee is still missing, and it's about her, not the search crews. As Pat Bronson is reported to say at Scared Monkeys, "The goal is to find out first what transpired because you don't know what transpired. Everyone assumes that she's dead. The statistical probability would probably support that, but it's not factual yet, so we have to urge caution on that. Just see if that is in fact the case, if not, let's get to the bottom, you gotta get the facts, you gotta get to the truth. And that's what this is: a truth-finding mission." To which we add that it's a mission that needs to stay on track and avoid the distractions of personality issues.
Evening HarryTho Updates And Commentary (via Email):
5:49 PM EDT - Fox News reports that Aruban Appeals Court on Curacao decided in favor of prosecution to allow: 1) Joran to continue to be interrogated by the Dutch investigators and 2) the FBI to remain involved in the case.
Fox News hosted Rod Wheeler, a Washington, DC homicide detective. Although Rod presented some good ideas, he and the Fox News facilitator were both too uninformed of the Natalee Hollloway case to provide any benefit to the audience.
Fox News did bridge the case with horse racing, referring to Joran or Deepak's alleged crime as a trifector: rape, murder and body disposal.
7:45 PM EDT - AOL News is reporting that Aruba police have found a man who claims to be witness in the Natalee Holloway case. Apparently, the gardener has been found and brought to court by police. The court session was a closed door hearing, and so far, no information has been provided by the court participants.
8:28 PM EDT - Nancy Grace's station reported that an arm has washed up on a Venezuelan beach and is being tested for Natalee.
Jim Knox and Fred Golba were interviewed. They searched the lighthouse and the Racquet Club area without any results. Originally, they were denied access to search the landfill; however, after some negotiations with the minister in charge, they were permitted 24/7 access to the landfill.
8:57 PM EDT - Nancy Grace's station interviewed Jug Twitty, Robin Ludwig and Wendy Murphy. Jug just defaulted to the original Holiday Inn lie and questioned why the three kids suddenly changed their story to the Marriott.
Robin Ludwig pretty much used Paulus van der Sloot as the explanation as to why Joran and the Kalpoes have been so resisted to interrogation. She even discounts the use of a polygraph, because she characterizes the three kids as psychopaths.
Wendy Murphy believes that the three kids killed Natalee. She advocates letting Joran go so he can succumb to his own arrogance, drinking and gambling habits and slip up and reveal his involvement in the murder. In the meantime, she advocates squeezing Joran as much as they can under the Aruban law.
Note: Under US law, there is no statute of limitation on murder.
Fox News (Bill) hosted Josie Mansur and Anne Bremner. Josie believes that all three could be charged, based upon the number of lies and no alibi even without forensic evidence and a body.
Bill ascertained that the gardener was in court, swore what he saw and was cross-examined. Still no information is available as to what the gardener said nor the outcome of his appearance.
Anne Bremner was less optimistic on the charges. She felt, as of now, only Joran could be charged based upon the lies and no alibi. She believes that it would be a tough case, but it could prevail with circumstantial evidence.
Other coverage includes Dan at Riehl World View who finds "Jersey Girl" to be less than credible owing to her infatuation with Joran.
In the meanwhile, Scared Monkeys is still working on the search team controversy, and writes on Natalee Holloway's family and EquuSearch having responded to the insensitive and derogatory comments by Jim Knox of the newest search teams in Aruba.
And lastly, in the 11:16 PM EDT HarryTho Update:
Scarborough hosted Shelby Cadmus (friend of Joran's), Paul Reynolds and Clint van Zandt (former FBI Profiler).No More HarryTho expected tonight, and no further updates until tomorow...
Shelby described Joran as a sweetheart who exhibited no traits of violence whatsoever, even when he was drunk. Shelby stressed that Joran was a good-looking guy who did not need to hustle women. He just had to be himself and girls came to him easily.
Clint van Zandt discounts Shelby's accounts of Joran. Clint provides ample examples of good-looking, calm, non-violent men who turned out to be criminally insane murderers. On another topic, Clint reported that he rechecked the area where Joran supposedly brought Natalee. From Clint's description, the areas were the skidrows of Aruba.
Lastly, Paul Reynolds offered that Shelby was in denial over Joran.
All I will add is that we have heard many friends of Joran say how nice of a guy he was. Despite Clint van Zandt's expert opinion of Joran, we must remember that a hound-house of cadaver dogs, trampled all over the island of Aruba without finding even one cadaver. No witnesses have come forward claiming that Joran or the Kalpoes sexually assaulted them. How bad can Joran be? It is not like we have a string of young women going missing on Aruba. It would seem to be that all this media-calling of bogeyman is unwarranted, other than to intoxicate the American audiences in order to energize their ratings. As for the denial comment, well now, that's a doubled-edged sword, isn't it?
Fox News (Greta) hosted Beth Twitty, Tito Lacle and Arlene Ellis-Schipper. Beth went back through the lying episodes of the three kids. She commented on her meetings with the FBI but chose not to share much.
Tito Lacle briefed us on the court activities today. Tito said that the gardener did appear in court and told his story. The gardener has had his passport confiscated and will remain at an undisclosed location until further notice. However, Tito stressed that the gardener was a free man tonight. Apparently, Tito conveys that the gardener will be interrogated by police. Tito gave the impression that the defense counsels were happy with the testimony of the gardener.
Jim Knox or Fred Golba came on as a quick guest to complain that the landfill holes, dug by Texas EquuSearch, were filled in today by the landfill bulldozer operators. One of the two men took GPS measurements to remember the location of the holes.
Nancy Grace's station revisited Robi Ludwig where she questions the gardener's comment that his reason for being near the Racquet Club was because his room did not have air conditioning, so he drove to a friend's house at 2:30 AM. Robi doubts this reason. The Aruban police didn't have a problem with a 2:30 AM drive to escape the Caribbean humidity. They even drained a swamp on the gardener's testimony.
Susan Candiotti on Nancy Grace's station confirms that the gardener could identify Joran and Deepak from court photos, but not Satish. She says the gardener recalled the rims on the car driven by the kids. She says he said he was a car fan. Susan seemed concerned about the kids attempting to hide their faces. Candiotti then spoke of the arm that washed ashore in Venezuela. Though the police doubt an arm could have survived the 18-mile stretch from Aruba to the Peninsula de Paraguara, Venezuela, they are awaiting the results of the test for Natalee. Then some bad news, the FBI is not attending the Dutch interrogations of Joran.
Lastly, Arlene Ellis-Schipper expressed that the FBI was a good will gesture; however, the Dutch interrogators are the main investigators and experts on Aruba. She said it was nice to have the FBI. The main basis of her comment was that the Dutch interrogators and Joran speak Dutch.
NEW UPDATE ON THE MATTER OF THE ARM IN VENEZUELA.
It turns out that I got busy and forgot to post the rest of the info on the arm story. Here's the rest of it, via Harry
The original story broke on MSNBC news and was included in an earlier email:
"MSNBC reports from Josie Mansur that a forearm was found on a Venezuelan beach. The forearm discovery was published in a Venezuelan newspaper. Apparently a dog found the arm and brought it back to the dog's owner. So far, Josie claims the Venezuelan's determined the arm belonged to a young person of certain height. It was taken to Caracas for evaluation."
My comment on Nancy Grace was that her station was announcing the find. The actual story in Aruba was printed by the Dairio. The original story was published in a Venezuelan newspaper.
"Candiotti then spoke of the arm that washed ashore in Venezuela. Though the police doubt an arm could have survived the 18-mile stretch from Aruba to the Peninsula de Paraguara, Venezuela, they are awaiting the results of the test for Natalee."
Here is the readily available transcript of Nancy Grace's station last night on the arm!
JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": Well, it is a forearm. It was found in a place called Laspieres (ph) on the coast. It was found by a dog, who picked it up and took it to the owner, his boss. And then the police were called in. They took the arm. They took it to the labs (INAUDIBLE) They made some preliminary tests on it, and then they sent it on to Caracas for further investigation, further analysis.
This photo, a photo that we copied today, that we reproduced in the "Diario," have already come out in another paper in the city of Coro (ph) in the state of Falcon (ph) in Venezuela. They already had a story on this forearm.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Let`s go pack to Susan Candiotti because I understand that you know a little bit about the tides. Could this arm or this body have washed from Aruba to Venezuela? Is that possible with the direction of the tides?
CANDIOTTI: That`s a good question. It is a question that police want to answer. And this is initially how they are seeing it. According to them, and according to experts in that area -- and of course, CNN correspondent Karl Penhaul has done stories about this in his reporting from Aruba on this early on -- the tides there run from east to west, normally, from Aruba, they run from -- from east to west. And so therefore, for that -- if, in fact, let`s say, this could have been Natalee Holloway, for that body part to have, frankly, traveled south would be highly unusual, to say the very least.
End of update on arm....
Technorati Tag: natalee holloway
Posted by Richard at August 15, 2005 1:52 PM
Good Grief this is quite a lot of info to digest. But... I sure am glad I do not have to watch the news any longer. Seriously the most sane information yet-as complete as can be without commercial interuption and media hype. Prayers for Natalees family.
Posted by: alwayschooselife at August 16, 2005 1:55 AM
Concerning the search for Natalie Holloway....I understand that Joran's father Paul Van der Sloot used to have a job on Aruba where he was in charge of many properties. I believe that the father helped the boys to dispose of the body in a cistern somewhere. Why haven't they been able to get a search warrent for the Van der sloots home??? I understand that the father would not allow Equasearch to search his property with the cadaver dogs. Is there a way to know where cisterns are on the island (through permits or drilling company's that make them) and then search every single cistern starting with abandoned properties first? Also it would be very helpful to know which properties Paul Van der sloot managed.
Posted by: jo at August 19, 2005 12:12 AM
Perhaps a very strange question. Does anyone know if the Aruban restaraunt Carlos n Charlies has a miniature cigar boat with the name plastered on the side?
Posted by: Danny at August 19, 2005 11:26 PM
Articles Related to Natalee Holloway:
- 'Beer Can Party' Comment On FoxNews Angers Previous Natalee Holloway Searcher (Includes Evening HarryTho Updates And Commentary As Arm Washes Up On Venezuelan Shore) (New update) - Aug 15, 2005