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March 30, 2005

Terri Schivo's Life: 11th District Denies Hearing

Topics: Terri Schiavo's Life Counts

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The 11th District Court of Appeals has just announced that they will not consider the Schindler's request for a new hearing.

More to come in subsequent posts ...

Posted by Hyscience at March 30, 2005 3:40 PM

This is just more of the same. Why they would take the word of a man that hardly ever visits, is living with another women and has had two children is beyond me...All he has to do is give her back to her parents...what is it to him?

Posted by: Chris Hutchins at March 30, 2005 4:05 PM

After all is said and done who will judge the Judges? The Judges that ignored laws and congress to do George Felos' bidding. Because at this point ,does anyone really believe it was anything more than that?

Posted by: christmasghost at March 30, 2005 4:08 PM

HEHEHEHEHEHHEHEEH

Posted by: mike at March 30, 2005 4:15 PM

Yeah, you're right Mr. Hutchins...as if it's so inconceivable to think that someone would NOT want to live for the rest of their lives in a state like Terri. And as if it's so inconceivable that she would have had this conversation with her husband and closest friends. And as if it's so inconceivable that a person who was so clearly concerned with her appearance (weight-conscious) would NOT want to be paraded around the world like that, and while not experiencing the world in any meaningful way for the rest of her life. As for why no MRI or PET scan was done...let me ask you this, if someone blows your arm off, do I need to run an MRI on you to see that your arm has been blown off? Likewise, if you see the CAT scan, even a lay person can see that there's NOTHING THERE...and you can't regrow a brain.

So in conclusion, I submit to you that most people would NOT want to be kept in this state...nor would they want their family to be burdened, forever, with caring for them when there is NO HOPE for any *meaningful* recovery. It doesn't require any stretch of the imagination to believe that Michael Schiavo is doing this in order to fulfill his wife's wishes (not that it's up to him anyway...cuz even if the family had custody, she would STILL be denied life support because it is what *TERRI* wanted).

Posted by: Vic Mackey at March 30, 2005 4:18 PM

What is with Michael Shivo??!! It's bad enough to order her tube removed/starvation/dehydration/slow death. But then to add cremation, which is totally against what Terri and family want and believe in? How mean does he have to get? He must really hate Terri's family!!

Posted by: Nancy Bryan at March 30, 2005 5:29 PM

Hey Vic, why are you projecting your own thoughts onto Terri?

There is incontrovertible evidence that Michael Schiavo lied under oath when he claimed that Terri told him that she did not want to be kept alive. He admitted to this on the Larry King show. I suggest that you view the transcript and see where he stated: "we do not know what she wants, it is what we want". Who is the we? The answer to that question is George Felos and Michael Schiavo.

No matter how one looks at the information provided, there is only one conclusion. Michael Schiavo wants his wife dead because of his own ego system. He is not prepared to divorce her and get on with his life. He is doing all of this to spite her and her parents, no doubt because he could not handle it when she asked for a divorce.

Posted by: Maggie4life at March 31, 2005 12:32 AM

Yeah Nancy, that's a brilliant theory. So I guess there's a vast conspiracy between Michael Schiavo, George Felos, 30 federal/state judges, and 70% of the American public...we are all just closet sado-masochist, "egotistical" people who hate the disabled and want them all *DEAD*. Let the woman die in peace and with some dignity and stop injecting your self-righteous ideology on everyone else. Just cuz YOU are some sort of selfish, cling-to-life-no-matter-how-humiliating-and-torturous-it-is-with-no-hope-for-recovery-EVER...just cuz you wouldn't mind having your entire family and your husband suffer for your entire remaining life as a stump on a bed...doesn't mean everyone thinks the same. The fact that you people really find it THAT difficult to believe that someone would not want to live like this is just beyond me.

Michael turns down 10 million dollars, even offers to give ALL of his civil suit winnings to charity, and years later a restraining order was almost placed on him because of how stringent he was on the level of care he demanded for his wife, and on top of that he even adamantly insists on performing a thorough autopsy...yet you people still throw around these ridiculous allegations that he has some ulterior motive. GET REAL ALREADY!

Posted by: Vic Mackey at March 31, 2005 7:10 AM

The essence of Terri, tragically, died 15 years ago. What remains is a shell...it's that simple. The only viable argument anyone could really make, which I haven't really heard anyone say is that even supposing Terri did clearly express her wish to die in such a state (i.e., with a living will)...it MIGHT be questionable whether she would want to die even if it was going to cause this much suffering for her family.

I, myself, wouldn't even want to live if I was fully conscious and quadrupelegic (like Christopher Reeve)...but, if I was not in pain and I saw how desperately my family wanted to care for me despite there being no hope, and my death would bring them horrible suffering...then I "may" be willing to grant them their wish and forego my wish to die. One can reasonably use that argument in court, particularly if Terri was very conscientous of her family, I don't know. If I was Michael, I would give custody to the parents for that very reason...because even though she may have made her wish clear to him and her friends, perhaps she did not consider how horribly that decision would hurt her family. So there's some doubt there...but *NOT* in Michael's (nor the court's) motives!

Posted by: Vic Mackey at March 31, 2005 7:29 AM

One of God's most precious servants has gone home. Leaving the rest of us here to make sure her death was not in vain.

Please know, at this most difficult time, our prayers are with the Schindler family and all of the courageous folks who tried to end this travesty of justice. May the Lord give them peace and shower them with His Grace.

Posted by: Robert W. Smith, MD at March 31, 2005 10:08 AM

please make that man arrested he is the cruelest person i never heard of he must be very sick in the head he has no compassin for terri's parents who really love their daughter i had a son who died of cancer and i would not have his feeding tube remove i had it put on him even for a few weeks no one lives on hearth in vain she was there for a purpose poor people my thougs go to the shindlers as for her husban he cannot forget he will have the same medicine one day

Posted by: terry deschambault at April 2, 2005 5:26 PM

You people make me sick, truly. 70-80% of Americans say they would do the same exact thing Michael Schiavo did (a completely humane and loving act), yet you people accuse him of being cruel and heartless. I suppose 70-80% of Americans are cruel, heartless, disabled-hating people.

It's too bad I'm not your guardian, Terry Deschambault, and that you aren't dying of cancer, because I would love to leave you there to rot for the rest of your days in "life" in pain and agony...so that I could then take so much joy in telling you that I'm prolonging your suffering out of "love and compassion."

Get it through your heads people...there are things worse than dying in this world. With all the many spiritual and religious references, one would think you people would be less fearful of death. Existing as a stump on a bed with no consciousness, no ability to move, is not LIVING!
Terri is in a much better place now...THANKS to Michael Schiavo.

Posted by: Vic Mackey at April 2, 2005 9:50 PM

To all of you that compare Terri's situation to that of a patient dying slowly and in horrible pain and suffering don't be idiot, there is by far no comparison. Terri was still full of life and that was quite obvious to those of us with eyes. The idiot that compared an arm being blown off to the perplexity of the human brain is an absolute idiot there is no comparison therefore an MRI and pet scan should have been prescribed. Terri's diagnosis was questionable therefore her situation demanded further and more modern diagnostic testing to reach an absolute prognosis before killing her. It pains me to see americans so eager to end life rather than preserve it as we had no way to know for certain what Terri's wishes were at the time she actually entered the circumstances that consequently ended her life maybe she changed her mind and wanted to live? I personally think as with many of us in that position would have opted to live as we almost always go with the known not the unknown and to die is unchartered waters!

Posted by: Kimberly at April 3, 2005 12:31 AM

Comment edited by administrator - profanity, not for the uninformed viewpoint.

Brilliant Kimberly, so by that logic even if people HAD a living will, signed and notarized, we should just ignore it because "maybe she would have changed her mind and wanted to live". Quit being such a --------- hippy, and don't even think of saying that a person with only 20% of their brain intact can lead any sort of meaningful life. As for my "blown off arm" example, it was to make it clear how that CAT scan that showed her cerebral cortex LIQUIFIED was *sufficient* to show how extensive the damage was. An MRI or PET scan would be unnecessary (just as performing an X-ray on a patient with a blown off arm would be unnecessary to determine such an obvious thing). As for Terri's condition being "questionable", that is completely untrue...it only became "questionable" when the family, out of complete desperation, started throwing around all these bogus accusations and finding crackpot doctors to make these ridiculously biased assessments of her based on 5 second video clips...something NO REPUTABLE DOCTOR would ever do. And I don't blame the family in the least for doing this, they were just doing whatever it took to save Terri (lying, manipulating, distorting, etc). It's understandable...but that is why we have OBJECTIVE bodies like the courts that are dispassionate and not swayed by emotions that are able to come to conclusions based on FACT.

And btw Kimberly, I sincerely hope you're an atheist...because if you're not, you're the biggest hypocrite imaginable. Because a person with true faith in God and the afterlife shouldn't have such an irrational fear of death.
Particularly when that death is only "physical" in nature...Terri was mentally dead 15 years ago.

Posted by: Vic Mackey at April 3, 2005 11:37 AM

Hey Vic, I hear you saying that you'd never want to live like that. I believe you. But are you really comfortable with the idea of the govenrment having tthe power to prevent a mother and father from loving and caring for their own daughter if that is what they want to do? Are you really okay with the government having the power to starve their daughter to death instead of allowing Mom and Dad to take her back into their lives, back into their care? Really, Vic, would that be okay for your mom or your child or your brother?

Posted by: jackieanlee at April 3, 2005 11:24 PM

Jackie, why do you, and all those who think like you, consistently distort and spin what actually happened here. You make it seem as if Terri had this eagerly expressed wish to remain "alive" at all costs, even if only 1 brain cell was still firing, and that the "government" was going *AGAINST* that expressed wish in order to kill her. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The courts found that this is what *SHE* would have wanted, based on FACTS, EVIDENCE, and TESTIMONY...all of which were reviewed over and over again by the higher courts. You may not like *HER* decision to not live like that (nor mine), but that doesn't make it your business nor does it give you the right to impose your beliefs onto her.

For the sake of argument, let's suppose she was VIDEOTAPED saying she didn't want to live like this, clearly and convincingly. Let's then suppose the parents still refuse to let her die, but the husband wishes to carry out her wishes...so now there's a dispute. The courts obviously have to settle it (who else would?), now what should the courts do? Go against the law and against Terri's very own wishes, and against her legal guardian's assertion of her wishes? Now THAT would be judicial activism. The judges followed the law, and they followed it honestly...to say otherwise is just absurd.

Now, you MAY want to _change_ Florida law so that in a case where no living will exists, guardianship automatically goes to whichever family member seeks to prolong her life rather than end it. That's fine. Go ahead and petition to do that, but you may find that "erring on the side of life" is not always the right thing to do. Suppose you expressed your wish to your husband never to live in that state, particularly while in pain for example, but you never got around to signing that living will. Now imagine if you then suddenly contract some awful disease that renders the speech part of your brain useless. You're now in extreme pain, but you can't express it. And now your family wishes to keep you alive, even though your husband knows exactly what you told him...and their act of keeping you alive would be torturous. It's not such a far-fetched example. Another more extreme example might be an abusive, estranged father who suddenly reappears when the daughter finds herself in this condition. Suppose he molested her when she was defenseless as a child and now wants to take advantage of her again while she's brain damaged and unaware...but since there's no evidence of it he gets his way. I think you'd agree that automatically granting custody to whatever family member wishes to prolong life is not always the greatest solution, nor the right thing to do. Also, this law would've sucked before this whole Terri fiasco happened, because no one would even be aware of this law and many people would potentially be left on life support against their wishes...a spouse almost definitely would know better.

It makes sense for custody for adults to go to the spouse, and to the parents for children. My wife definitely knows what I want and think MUCH more than my parents. And it should remain this way unless you can prove that that guardian is LYING and doesn't have your best interests in mind (an ulterior motive). Since there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE of that in Terri's case, just last minute, desperate allegations through the media when legal proceedings weren't going their way...there was no reason to change guardianship. Any judge would have to take his word at face value, the burden is on the others to prove otherwise. In this case, you'd have to prove some sort of conspiracy to kill Terri between the husband, Terri's best friend, and the husband's brother.

In any event, stop spinning this whole thing as some sort of government conspiracy to kill disabled people...you people sound so absurd when you talk like that. You might as well start some cult and wait for the next alien invasion.

I understand the emotional aspect of the whole thing, these decisions to remove life support are *ALWAYS* sad...even when the entire family agrees to do so. But that doesn't mean it's anyone else's business. And when there is an irreconcible dispute, what's the best objective system we have to settle it besides the courts? CONGRESS?!

Posted by: Vic Mackey at April 4, 2005 10:06 AM



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